Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Dispute with builder escalated to assault

268 replies

pollykitty · 16/03/2023 20:45

I had a bizarre violent altercation today with a builder, and I don't know what to think or do about it anymore. I think I am still in shock and would appreciate some objective advice.

The long version: A couple of weeks ago I was looking for someone to clear a part of our garden. An old shed, overgrown area, old rotten swing set and small patio (not cement, like klinker stones). I could not find anyone and posted on one of these sites where you tell them about the job and then tradespeople get in contact to make quotes. This young guy (called Ollie) got in touch almost immediately. He has a company and everything. He came around with a coworker and they seemed ok. He said he could clear my garden in a day with a small digger and would send me a quote. Since it was a bit of an unknown quanitity in terms of labor, he quoted 45/hr per man and for the digger and diesel. Since he said it would take 1 day, I thought ok, that would be fast and expensive (around 1,600). But alright.

Three of them showed up on a the day (last Thursday) around 10:30am and started working. No digger in site. They disappeared at lunchtime for 3 hours. Came back and said 'we had to go do something else'. Worked a bit again, digger arrived at 3pm and they left again for 2 hours with a full trailer. Came back at did some more until 7pm (ug). But it wasn't done. And when they left the house, the passageway through the garage/house was absolutely filthy (we don't have side or rear access to our garden). Also unbeknowst to us at the time, diesel had been spilt all over the garage floor. We didn't smell it at first but then I woke up in the night gagging due to the fumes. They did clear most of the back but not everything and said they would come back next day.

On Friday two of them showed up at 10:30 and it was obvious to me by then that they were just stretching out the time as much as possible to charge me. I still thought 'ok it will be more but fine'. It was infuriating to watch though. They'd work for like 45 minutes, disappear for 2 hours, come back, disappear etc. They said the traffic to the tip was terrible. By 6pm I was fed up and wanted them out of my house. Ollie showed up at 4pm and helped them finish up. Around 7pm I actually had to kick them out of my house. They were standing in the garage smoking. Again, the house was an absolute TIP in the area near the garden. They moved furniture around, mud everywhere. It took us 2 days to fully clean up.

Any guesses as the the invoice they sent me? If you were thinking 2K or 3K or 4K you'd be wrong. 5K.

I nearly had a heart attack. They added charges that had never been mentioned to me. 800 for mileage to the tip. 800 for waste disposal. And claimed 52 hours of labor. My husband and I sat down and worked out what we thought was fair and reasonable. We accomodated the charges that were not in the offer. It came to about 3500.

We wrote a letter(email) explaining our dispute, and asked them to provide futher evidence of their work. Such as receipts from the waste site and so on. The address of the waste site (for mileage) etc. Ollie started calling me nonstop. He sent harrassing texts. His brother got involved. My husband called them and asked them to reply to the email, and we'd go from there.

To be fair they did. But their reply was nonsensical and difficult to follow and while some receipts were valid, others were dated from early March and clearly not from our house. We believe now that the reason they were gone so long was that they were picking up rubbish from other sites or even their own rubbish, adding it to our trailers, and trying to charge us. From the moment they sent their reply, they started harrassing me. I received approximately 20 phone calls last night between midnight and 3am. Texts saying if I don't pay, we're going to stick the bailiffs on you and charge interest. Etc. Also just general demands to respond.

We did respond, adding a bit more to accomodate the receipts, and sent 4000 today. We disputed the rest in a registered letter.

So he got 4000 quid 5 days after his invoice was sent. Today he the left me a voice mail saying he was going to 'dump my garden garbage on my drive unless i paid the rest of my bill'

And then he did. He showed up with his van and trailer and his mate. He didn't get on to my drive, because I moved the car to the end, but started dumping it out of the trailer on the side walk. I had literally just come home when he turned up and started filming him doing so (after calling the police) and then he assaulted me.

He shoved me and tried to punch me. Luckily it's on video.

I wasn't really hurt but unfortunately the police didn't show up until after. Of course what came then was a lot of shouting back and forth, as the police tried to descalate the situation. At first they were like, 'it's a civil matter'. But then I showed one copper the video and he changed his mind. Because he dumped a huge amount of garden sht on the pavement, the city will have to clean it up. He will fined for cleaning it up. He will receive a fine for fly tipping etc. They open a file for the assult. I should add, we were right about our theory. Not only was he lying about taking our garbage to the tip (otherwise why would he still have it??), he left stuff on the sidewalk that does not even belong to us. Including 8 huge tyres.

Now I am here typing this because my husband and I disagree about what to do (not angrily, just under discussion). I want to go to lawyer. I really don't know if I can do anything. I want to file a counter claim for a refund as he lied about going to the tip (he even said 'I have 9 more loads to dump on you' And I want to do anything I can to get this guy shut down and out of business. I want to leave the most devastingly worded google review so that no one ever hires him again. I actually believe not to do so is like, immoral on my part. Am I being overly righteous? I think he intimidates people (especially women) into paying exhorbitant bills (after luring them in with lowball offers) and he belongs in jail. I' m not saying I can make that happen, just my opinion. My husband says 'if he goes away and we never hear from him again, that's a win'. But he wasn't the one who was harrassed on the phone and via email and texts. And assaulted.

WWYD?

SHORT VERSION: Hired a builder/contractor guy. Got send a huge bill. Disputed the bill. Got assaulted.

OP posts:
maddening · 17/03/2023 00:45

You're not in Wilmslow or surrounding areas at all are you?

wasteoffunds · 17/03/2023 00:51

Small claims court. This story proves that it is safer to always go on personal recommendation for any trades people you employ. This has certain elements of a deliberate scam similar to 'blokes' starting to knock down my Mother's garden wall and kidding her my father had agreed to it. Fortunately she did not fall for it and they thought better of finishing the scam job.

QueenCamilla · 17/03/2023 00:52

@BadNomad
Being in a rush is also risky for encountering the baddies!
The most proper arsehole in my experience was a roofer who I contracted in absolute rush and desperation when water was flooding my property.

I actually cried a tad on the phone the day I hired him. Paid a deposit just to get someone on the job, he was all sweetness and promises... Well, it turned ugly quickly and I had to get CCTV... And I got 2k out of my 3k deposit back with difficulty but not before some nastiness. The crook just thought I'll dance to the tune out fear of cancelling the job and being left with a leaky roof.

They are like vultures preying on people stuck for options!

pollykitty · 17/03/2023 01:02

LadyJ2023 · 17/03/2023 00:35

Are you joking you paid 4000 for that. Never in all my business years would I have ever encouraged a person to pay double for a clearing job. This is the daftest thing I've ever heard of. You pay what your quoted and maybe a little more for a beer if they did a good job. You've clearly fallen for cowboys our removal and clearing company your looking at just under a grand for a day's work and 2 men. 45ph unbelievable. Its guys like this who give us genuine workers all permits in place etc a bad name. Good luck sorting it but you should never have paid you have well and truly been ripped off. Also if they were able to bring back the rubbish then they never had the proper permits for taking it to the correct rubbish centres.

Honestly like, do you know how assey you sound? I never claimed that I wasn't ripped off. I am fully aware. We were trying to get them to go away after we sent a letter saying 'we dispute this invoice' and they went ballistic.

I love that so many responses here are like 'I would never fall for that'. Are you sure? Because they weren't a$$holes when they came over. They were really friendly and pleasant. He sent me a quote quickly. He seem interested in doing a lot of work for us. He even sent another quote to build a wooden deck, which I declined, which was perfectly laid out at a fixed rate.

I agreed to the hourly rate because he seemed totally professional. But NOOOO you would NEVER fall for that.

OP posts:
SLS500 · 17/03/2023 01:03

That's unbelievable. Definitely press charges and post the video evidence everywhere you can , along with your review

12345onceicaughtafishalive678910 · 17/03/2023 01:04

Please next time you want a job doing get a personal recommendation from a friend or family member it's the safest way. Hard lesson learnt.

Don't be so bloody patronising! In the real world, it is not always possible to do that.

I got a couple of guys to clear my garden, they only charged 120 quid, including getting rid of garden waste..I didn't know them from Adam..

mathanxiety · 17/03/2023 01:04

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Yes, just talk to them.

Hmm
pollykitty · 17/03/2023 01:05

QueenCamilla · 17/03/2023 00:52

@BadNomad
Being in a rush is also risky for encountering the baddies!
The most proper arsehole in my experience was a roofer who I contracted in absolute rush and desperation when water was flooding my property.

I actually cried a tad on the phone the day I hired him. Paid a deposit just to get someone on the job, he was all sweetness and promises... Well, it turned ugly quickly and I had to get CCTV... And I got 2k out of my 3k deposit back with difficulty but not before some nastiness. The crook just thought I'll dance to the tune out fear of cancelling the job and being left with a leaky roof.

They are like vultures preying on people stuck for options!

If I'm honest, I would have been totally happy to pay 2K and a bit pissy to pay 3K but would have done it without complaining or disputing him. But 5K was just ludicrous to me.
I agree with you, being desperate is a bad thing when needed house stuff done.

OP posts:
talknomore · 17/03/2023 01:07

I am desperate to remember the site but can't remember or find it. So frustrating. I don't think they are liable but could report them.
You will have that info in history of your browser.

pollykitty · 17/03/2023 01:08

maddening · 17/03/2023 00:45

You're not in Wilmslow or surrounding areas at all are you?

Nope

OP posts:
pollykitty · 17/03/2023 01:10

xprincessxjanetx · 17/03/2023 00:16

And FWIW I'm currently in a massive dispute with my neighbour, and I have had to get police involved as he is aggressive and violent, I refuse to take any shit.

That would scare me. Neighbors are too close. Please be careful.

OP posts:
pollykitty · 17/03/2023 01:10

talknomore · 17/03/2023 01:07

I am desperate to remember the site but can't remember or find it. So frustrating. I don't think they are liable but could report them.
You will have that info in history of your browser.

No I don't. I've tried that.

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 17/03/2023 01:15

pollykitty · 16/03/2023 22:56

A written contract for garden clearing...ummm. Ok. If you say so. I had a quote from them on company letter head. It seemed reasonable.

I am desperate to remember the site but can't remember or find it. So frustrating. I don't think they are liable but could report them.

What exactly was in the quote?

If money's to be exchanged for services and if dirty items are to be brought through a house then yes, a contract is necessary, and also references from previous clients, and proof they are bonded and insured. If payment is to be hourly, then there has to be a maximum number of hours and a coming and going log kept and countersigned.

I know you're hurting here, and I'm not trying to stick the boot in. But these criminals saw you a mile away.

You could perhaps look through your search history to find the website?

Do consider contacting your bank to see if you can get some money back as these were scam artists. Or get your cheque stopped. Suggestions to contact your home insurer are very sensible.

talknomore · 17/03/2023 01:19

Just try to Google him again. Is anything coming up at all? Try his or company name, email or something services you were searching for

pollykitty · 17/03/2023 01:20

scoobydoo1971 · 16/03/2023 21:50

Like others mention, check he has a waste carrier licence. The Environment Agency have a public register. If he is not there, report him. He should have given you a waste transfer note, or equivalent document, to show what he was removing from your property and where it was going. Fly-tipping on private land is an offence, and you can ask the environmental health department of your local authority to investigate. I am a property developer and never accept quotes per hour, or for a daily rate. I only deal with tradespeople who give me a fixed price for the job, and put the quote in writing. That rule comes from years of dealing with time-wasters and cowboys.

You don't need a solicitor as you are unlikely to get those court costs back on the small claims circuit. If you want a legal remedy, you can serve a court application for a fee. This would be for loss and damages arising from this event. The Trading Standards will also take an interest. Contact the trade website where you found him, and tell them what has happened. Check your house insurance as you may have legal cover included. If so, you can get legal advice and representation for free.

Somehow I missed this earlier. Thanks, that's a helpful perspective.

OP posts:
BelindaMelinda · 17/03/2023 01:22

I love that so many responses here are like 'I would never fall for that'. Are you sure? Because they weren't a$$holes when they came over

Agreeing to an hourly rate of pay for such a job is just plain bonkers op. We've had lots of various garden/clearance jobs done over the years on several houses and you always get a quote for the job. How nice they are is irrelevant, they're a self employed tradesman giving you a quote for a one off bit of work. I'd have no interest in what their hourly rate was, it's totally irrelevant.

I'm sorry if it's hard to hear, but yes, I'm quite sure that I'd never agree to anything like you did, as I'm sure many others wouldn't have.

pollykitty · 17/03/2023 01:24

mathanxiety · 17/03/2023 01:15

What exactly was in the quote?

If money's to be exchanged for services and if dirty items are to be brought through a house then yes, a contract is necessary, and also references from previous clients, and proof they are bonded and insured. If payment is to be hourly, then there has to be a maximum number of hours and a coming and going log kept and countersigned.

I know you're hurting here, and I'm not trying to stick the boot in. But these criminals saw you a mile away.

You could perhaps look through your search history to find the website?

Do consider contacting your bank to see if you can get some money back as these were scam artists. Or get your cheque stopped. Suggestions to contact your home insurer are very sensible.

Give me a fcking break. I'm sorry but this whole 'I thoroughly investigate all tradesmen who enter my property' is a bunch of BS.
I have a list of people that I trust to do work and they were all busy and couldn't come for months. I was a bit desperate. The guy is a registered trademan.

He had a professional looking quotes done in some sort of quoting software.
I've said what was in the quote in my OP.

OP posts:
pollykitty · 17/03/2023 01:30

BelindaMelinda · 17/03/2023 01:22

I love that so many responses here are like 'I would never fall for that'. Are you sure? Because they weren't a$$holes when they came over

Agreeing to an hourly rate of pay for such a job is just plain bonkers op. We've had lots of various garden/clearance jobs done over the years on several houses and you always get a quote for the job. How nice they are is irrelevant, they're a self employed tradesman giving you a quote for a one off bit of work. I'd have no interest in what their hourly rate was, it's totally irrelevant.

I'm sorry if it's hard to hear, but yes, I'm quite sure that I'd never agree to anything like you did, as I'm sure many others wouldn't have.

Agree to disagree. Worked with plenty of tradespeople who work hourly when it's not totally obvious how long it will take. It's interesting you say that you wouldn't accept it and it's unusual, because I had another quote, from someone who's worked with me before and I trust, which was also hourly. He estimated 2 days because he works by himself. BUT - he couldn't come until the end of May.
I think a lot of people are not understanding how big the space is and how much needed clearing. Trees, large shed, large swing set, patio. Also bamboo. A lot of bamboo. That is why I agreed to a crane because they dug out the roots properly.
I'm not defending the cnts at all, but as I said, I thought it would be 2K and was ok with that. I would have paid 3K with no complaint.
The idea that you wouldn't do that is fine. I don't care what you would do.
I don't deserve to have harrassment and to be assaulted because I didn't sign a proper contract with a proper tradesperson and I agreed to an hourly rate.

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 17/03/2023 01:30

Ok, have a blessed day, dear. I'm out.

ZeldaWillTellYourFortune · 17/03/2023 01:38

What was the rush to get this job done?
No matter now; I'm just curious.

Mamanyt · 17/03/2023 01:39

I'd be a bit put out with DH, thinking that leaving you alone is a win, following a physical assault! Squash this man like the insect he is! And next time, get EVERYTHING in writing!

Mamanyt · 17/03/2023 01:39

Mamanyt · 17/03/2023 01:39

I'd be a bit put out with DH, thinking that leaving you alone is a win, following a physical assault! Squash this man like the insect he is! And next time, get EVERYTHING in writing!

"This man" being the contractor, NOT your DH.

pollykitty · 17/03/2023 02:13

ZeldaWillTellYourFortune · 17/03/2023 01:38

What was the rush to get this job done?
No matter now; I'm just curious.

As you might have gathered by the description, our garden is a wasteland of horror. We have been trying to do something with it for years. We did a partial clear a few years ago ourselves, then put in a new fence. It is south facing and could be really lovely. well I decided this year is it and hired a guy to do a deck, a stone terrace and a pond. He can only do it in mid April. He doesn’t do garden clearing. We also want to plant out before summer. You may say oh you had time then to make a rationale choice. We dont. I am away next week on business, then we have friends visiting, then we are going to germany for easter. It really had to be done so the guy could start doing the nice stuff. And before anyone asks yes i have fixed quotes from him. And signed contracts. I just fcked up this part massively.

OP posts:
EmmaDilemma5 · 17/03/2023 02:17

Always get a job price, not hourly rate - for this exact reason.

You've been scammed. Unfortunately they know where you live with adds a big risk.

Aweebitpainful · 17/03/2023 02:18

I am too tired to read the thread in its entirety but if you are going to see a lawyer or press charges... then DON'T post all over social media etc about it. It could very well be used against you... even though you are in the right.

Swipe left for the next trending thread