Dispute with builder escalated to assault

[pollykitty]

I had a bizarre violent altercation today with a builder, and I don't know what to think or do about it anymore. I think I am still in shock and would appreciate some objective advice.

The long version: A couple of weeks ago I was looking for someone to clear a part of our garden. An old shed, overgrown area, old rotten swing set and small patio (not cement, like klinker stones). I could not find anyone and posted on one of these sites where you tell them about the job and then tradespeople get in contact to make quotes. This young guy (called Ollie) got in touch almost immediately. He has a company and everything. He came around with a coworker and they seemed ok. He said he could clear my garden in a day with a small digger and would send me a quote. Since it was a bit of an unknown quanitity in terms of labor, he quoted 45/hr per man and for the digger and diesel. Since he said it would take 1 day, I thought ok, that would be fast and expensive (around 1,600). But alright.

Three of them showed up on a the day (last Thursday) around 10:30am and started working. No digger in site. They disappeared at lunchtime for 3 hours. Came back and said 'we had to go do something else'. Worked a bit again, digger arrived at 3pm and they left again for 2 hours with a full trailer. Came back at did some more until 7pm (ug). But it wasn't done. And when they left the house, the passageway through the garage/house was absolutely filthy (we don't have side or rear access to our garden). Also unbeknowst to us at the time, diesel had been spilt all over the garage floor. We didn't smell it at first but then I woke up in the night gagging due to the fumes. They did clear most of the back but not everything and said they would come back next day.

On Friday two of them showed up at 10:30 and it was obvious to me by then that they were just stretching out the time as much as possible to charge me. I still thought 'ok it will be more but fine'. It was infuriating to watch though. They'd work for like 45 minutes, disappear for 2 hours, come back, disappear etc. They said the traffic to the tip was terrible. By 6pm I was fed up and wanted them out of my house. Ollie showed up at 4pm and helped them finish up. Around 7pm I actually had to kick them out of my house. They were standing in the garage smoking. Again, the house was an absolute TIP in the area near the garden. They moved furniture around, mud everywhere. It took us 2 days to fully clean up.

Any guesses as the the invoice they sent me? If you were thinking 2K or 3K or 4K you'd be wrong. 5K.

I nearly had a heart attack. They added charges that had never been mentioned to me. 800 for mileage to the tip. 800 for waste disposal. And claimed 52 hours of labor. My husband and I sat down and worked out what we thought was fair and reasonable. We accomodated the charges that were not in the offer. It came to about 3500.

We wrote a letter(email) explaining our dispute, and asked them to provide futher evidence of their work. Such as receipts from the waste site and so on. The address of the waste site (for mileage) etc. Ollie started calling me nonstop. He sent harrassing texts. His brother got involved. My husband called them and asked them to reply to the email, and we'd go from there.

To be fair they did. But their reply was nonsensical and difficult to follow and while some receipts were valid, others were dated from early March and clearly not from our house. We believe now that the reason they were gone so long was that they were picking up rubbish from other sites or even their own rubbish, adding it to our trailers, and trying to charge us. From the moment they sent their reply, they started harrassing me. I received approximately 20 phone calls last night between midnight and 3am. Texts saying if I don't pay, we're going to stick the bailiffs on you and charge interest. Etc. Also just general demands to respond.

We did respond, adding a bit more to accomodate the receipts, and sent 4000 today. We disputed the rest in a registered letter.

So he got 4000 quid 5 days after his invoice was sent. Today he the left me a voice mail saying he was going to 'dump my garden garbage on my drive unless i paid the rest of my bill'

And then he did. He showed up with his van and trailer and his mate. He didn't get on to my drive, because I moved the car to the end, but started dumping it out of the trailer on the side walk. I had literally just come home when he turned up and started filming him doing so (after calling the police) and then he assaulted me.

He shoved me and tried to punch me. Luckily it's on video.

I wasn't really hurt but unfortunately the police didn't show up until after. Of course what came then was a lot of shouting back and forth, as the police tried to descalate the situation. At first they were like, 'it's a civil matter'. But then I showed one copper the video and he changed his mind. Because he dumped a huge amount of garden sht on the pavement, the city will have to clean it up. He will fined for cleaning it up. He will receive a fine for fly tipping etc. They open a file for the assult. I should add, we were right about our theory. Not only was he lying about taking our garbage to the tip (otherwise why would he still have it??), he left stuff on the sidewalk that does not even belong to us. Including 8 huge tyres.

Now I am here typing this because my husband and I disagree about what to do (not angrily, just under discussion). I want to go to lawyer. I really don't know if I can do anything. I want to file a counter claim for a refund as he lied about going to the tip (he even said 'I have 9 more loads to dump on you' And I want to do anything I can to get this guy shut down and out of business. I want to leave the most devastingly worded google review so that no one ever hires him again. I actually believe not to do so is like, immoral on my part. Am I being overly righteous? I think he intimidates people (especially women) into paying exhorbitant bills (after luring them in with lowball offers) and he belongs in jail. I' m not saying I can make that happen, just my opinion. My husband says 'if he goes away and we never hear from him again, that's a win'. But he wasn't the one who was harrassed on the phone and via email and texts. And assaulted.

WWYD?

SHORT VERSION: Hired a builder/contractor guy. Got send a huge bill. Disputed the bill. Got assaulted.

Press criminal charges.

Hire a lawyer.

You were foolish to proceed without a written contract, but these eejits have given you false receipts, engaged in criminal conduct, and have been recorded at it.

I don't think you'll see your money again, though you might - but these people need to be stopped.

When you hire a lawyer, ask him or her to see if that site where this bunch of tossers found your job description is liable in any way.

And call your bank.

Did you pay by cheque?
If yes, have ot stopped. It will coat you a fee but cheap in the long run.

Thank you for the thoughtful words. I am going to order more home security now.

Cheque? WHat's a cheque? I haven't written a cheque in about 15 years.

Excellent advice

"It does not matter whether the contract is written or oral or implied by the conduct of you and the consumer, or a combination of these." You have a very strong case I'd say and they can be forced by the small claims court to pay.

A written contract for garden clearing...ummm. Ok. If you say so. I had a quote from them on company letter head. It seemed reasonable.

I am desperate to remember the site but can't remember or find it. So frustrating. I don't think they are liable but could report them.

Oh thanks, that's very helpful.

Your Husband is being an idiot you were assaulted for fuck sake,I hope your okay?it must of been very frightening💐,report the bastards and bloody sue them they deserve everything bad coming to them and you carrying this forward could stop some other poor person being duped for far more money and maybe even hurt more than you were.

I very much doubt this is the first time this vile excuse for a human being and his gang of merry scrotums have pulled this scam,fingers crossed you reporting them and not backing down will mean it is the last time!

@pollykitty - What an horrific experience you’ve endured and I do offer you my sincere sympathy.

It’s likely that this guy already has a criminal record (and may have even served time in prison).

Has he ‘charged’ VAT on his invoice? I reckon he doesn’t pay his taxes.

You may wish to inform HMRC about this guy and they might do an audit on him! You can go to

www.gov.uk

and in the ‘Contact HMRC’ section you can click on the link to “Report Tax Fraud or Avoidance to HMRC” (they never reveal who reported him, it’s all confidential).

Wishing you all the best from a fellow US/UK dual citizen :)

I want to do anything I can to get this guy shut down and out of business.

I’d not go on a personal vendetta with a violent man.

I’d follow up with police to ensure the assault charge progresses. Let the police do their bit.

I don’t think you need a lawyer. You and your DH did calculations and you paid what you thought was reasonable for the work completed. You will damage your reputation and reliability as the victim of the assault if you make this even more personal by about facing and claiming you’ve changed your mind about the reduced amount you paid him and you want a refund.

Take the high road, but that doesn’t mean do nothing. It means pester the police to move onto charging him with assault.

Very few self-employed tradesmen meet the threshold for VAT. The fact there is no VAT on his bill is meaningless.

Sounds horrendous. Do you have before and after pics? And pics of the damage/dirt? Might help
your case.

Exactly. This is not the time to do a character assassination on social media.
It would probably egg him on to worse violence. A man who would dump rubbish in your garden and then physically attack you isn’t going to respect a locked front door.

Ok, like that's not helpful AT ALL. My husband is not an idiot. He was absolutely fcking furious when he finally got back home. Not about the garbage. About them assaulting me. They were still there and he immediately went after them both. I wish I had a recording. If the police had not been there, there would have been violence. He is a hobbyist boxer.
One of the guys was actually trying to leave rubbish on our driveway and my husband got in his face saying, get off my fcking property right now you scum bag. The guy looked visibly scared.
The police actually just watched at that point.
This is neither here nor there but the third member of their team was this extremely quiet guy that the other two just yelled at constantly. He did the most work of the three of them, carting stuff back and forth with a wheelbarrow. He was super sweet to my dog. Yeah ok, he came back to dump garbage too but he was redfaced and looked really like he did not want to be there.
At one point I said to him, what are you doing? You actually seem like a nice guy. Why are you hanging out with these assholes. He just stared at me though.
I dunno. Maybe it just the mom in me.

We were trying to appease him and yeah, I agree we paid too much

As you've sadly found out, appeasing/overpaying these types never works - it just signals you as someone ripe for further plucking

I can't add much to the excellent advice posted already, but don't bother hoping to put them out of business; phoenix-like they'll just create another one

Do not put anything on social media if you’re planning to take legal action (lawyer).

Sorry to hear this, is my worst nightmare

get a ring camera and a cheap video camera in your home facing the door and look to do a chargeback on the payment

That's the thing these days you never know who's who and if they are ripoffs etc

This is just the sort of objectivness that I need to hear right now and I appreciate it.

Are you reading the same thread as us?

Plot is believable. She called the police.

Idiot? Was that you signing off your post?

WTF are you on about. I did call the police. So you're on here to tell me I'm an idiot when you're the one who apparently can't read?

People like you make mumsnet miserable.

I would not have paid any more than I was quoted and I would have gone to the police station and reported any threats.

This is neither here nor there but the third member of their team was this extremely quiet guy that the other two just yelled at constantly. He did the most work of the three of them, carting stuff back and forth with a wheelbarrow. He was super sweet to my dog. Yeah ok, he came back to dump garbage too but he was redfaced and looked really like he did not want to be there.

Actually OP mention this to the police as this is a huge red flag for modern slavery. Thousands of young men are trafficked to work as slaves for these sort of cowboy tradesmen. The third man could have quite literally been a slave. This needs to be investigated on top of your assault.