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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Dispute with builder escalated to assault

268 replies

pollykitty · 16/03/2023 20:45

I had a bizarre violent altercation today with a builder, and I don't know what to think or do about it anymore. I think I am still in shock and would appreciate some objective advice.

The long version: A couple of weeks ago I was looking for someone to clear a part of our garden. An old shed, overgrown area, old rotten swing set and small patio (not cement, like klinker stones). I could not find anyone and posted on one of these sites where you tell them about the job and then tradespeople get in contact to make quotes. This young guy (called Ollie) got in touch almost immediately. He has a company and everything. He came around with a coworker and they seemed ok. He said he could clear my garden in a day with a small digger and would send me a quote. Since it was a bit of an unknown quanitity in terms of labor, he quoted 45/hr per man and for the digger and diesel. Since he said it would take 1 day, I thought ok, that would be fast and expensive (around 1,600). But alright.

Three of them showed up on a the day (last Thursday) around 10:30am and started working. No digger in site. They disappeared at lunchtime for 3 hours. Came back and said 'we had to go do something else'. Worked a bit again, digger arrived at 3pm and they left again for 2 hours with a full trailer. Came back at did some more until 7pm (ug). But it wasn't done. And when they left the house, the passageway through the garage/house was absolutely filthy (we don't have side or rear access to our garden). Also unbeknowst to us at the time, diesel had been spilt all over the garage floor. We didn't smell it at first but then I woke up in the night gagging due to the fumes. They did clear most of the back but not everything and said they would come back next day.

On Friday two of them showed up at 10:30 and it was obvious to me by then that they were just stretching out the time as much as possible to charge me. I still thought 'ok it will be more but fine'. It was infuriating to watch though. They'd work for like 45 minutes, disappear for 2 hours, come back, disappear etc. They said the traffic to the tip was terrible. By 6pm I was fed up and wanted them out of my house. Ollie showed up at 4pm and helped them finish up. Around 7pm I actually had to kick them out of my house. They were standing in the garage smoking. Again, the house was an absolute TIP in the area near the garden. They moved furniture around, mud everywhere. It took us 2 days to fully clean up.

Any guesses as the the invoice they sent me? If you were thinking 2K or 3K or 4K you'd be wrong. 5K.

I nearly had a heart attack. They added charges that had never been mentioned to me. 800 for mileage to the tip. 800 for waste disposal. And claimed 52 hours of labor. My husband and I sat down and worked out what we thought was fair and reasonable. We accomodated the charges that were not in the offer. It came to about 3500.

We wrote a letter(email) explaining our dispute, and asked them to provide futher evidence of their work. Such as receipts from the waste site and so on. The address of the waste site (for mileage) etc. Ollie started calling me nonstop. He sent harrassing texts. His brother got involved. My husband called them and asked them to reply to the email, and we'd go from there.

To be fair they did. But their reply was nonsensical and difficult to follow and while some receipts were valid, others were dated from early March and clearly not from our house. We believe now that the reason they were gone so long was that they were picking up rubbish from other sites or even their own rubbish, adding it to our trailers, and trying to charge us. From the moment they sent their reply, they started harrassing me. I received approximately 20 phone calls last night between midnight and 3am. Texts saying if I don't pay, we're going to stick the bailiffs on you and charge interest. Etc. Also just general demands to respond.

We did respond, adding a bit more to accomodate the receipts, and sent 4000 today. We disputed the rest in a registered letter.

So he got 4000 quid 5 days after his invoice was sent. Today he the left me a voice mail saying he was going to 'dump my garden garbage on my drive unless i paid the rest of my bill'

And then he did. He showed up with his van and trailer and his mate. He didn't get on to my drive, because I moved the car to the end, but started dumping it out of the trailer on the side walk. I had literally just come home when he turned up and started filming him doing so (after calling the police) and then he assaulted me.

He shoved me and tried to punch me. Luckily it's on video.

I wasn't really hurt but unfortunately the police didn't show up until after. Of course what came then was a lot of shouting back and forth, as the police tried to descalate the situation. At first they were like, 'it's a civil matter'. But then I showed one copper the video and he changed his mind. Because he dumped a huge amount of garden sht on the pavement, the city will have to clean it up. He will fined for cleaning it up. He will receive a fine for fly tipping etc. They open a file for the assult. I should add, we were right about our theory. Not only was he lying about taking our garbage to the tip (otherwise why would he still have it??), he left stuff on the sidewalk that does not even belong to us. Including 8 huge tyres.

Now I am here typing this because my husband and I disagree about what to do (not angrily, just under discussion). I want to go to lawyer. I really don't know if I can do anything. I want to file a counter claim for a refund as he lied about going to the tip (he even said 'I have 9 more loads to dump on you' And I want to do anything I can to get this guy shut down and out of business. I want to leave the most devastingly worded google review so that no one ever hires him again. I actually believe not to do so is like, immoral on my part. Am I being overly righteous? I think he intimidates people (especially women) into paying exhorbitant bills (after luring them in with lowball offers) and he belongs in jail. I' m not saying I can make that happen, just my opinion. My husband says 'if he goes away and we never hear from him again, that's a win'. But he wasn't the one who was harrassed on the phone and via email and texts. And assaulted.

WWYD?

SHORT VERSION: Hired a builder/contractor guy. Got send a huge bill. Disputed the bill. Got assaulted.

OP posts:
Namechangedforthisonetoday · 16/03/2023 21:47

Oh OP what a nightmare. Speak to your bank, you may be able to get some of the money back (I’m not saying that’s likely but you never know) if you can show your bank you felt intimidated and coerced into paying - E.g the abusive texts, demands etc. It has to be worth a try. What did the police suggest? Put up CCTV however I’m going to caveat that by saying that the certain type of person that pulls these stunts, doesn’t really care about that. I really do feel for you.

RudsyFarmer · 16/03/2023 21:48

Look these people are obviously criminals and there is no point trying to sue them for a refund as you will find they have no assets to claim against and even if they did they won’t pay. You’ll be throwing good money after bad.

My advice is let the police do what the police are going to do. Get CCTV if you haven’t already annd anticipate more harassment.

scoobydoo1971 · 16/03/2023 21:50

Like others mention, check he has a waste carrier licence. The Environment Agency have a public register. If he is not there, report him. He should have given you a waste transfer note, or equivalent document, to show what he was removing from your property and where it was going. Fly-tipping on private land is an offence, and you can ask the environmental health department of your local authority to investigate. I am a property developer and never accept quotes per hour, or for a daily rate. I only deal with tradespeople who give me a fixed price for the job, and put the quote in writing. That rule comes from years of dealing with time-wasters and cowboys.

You don't need a solicitor as you are unlikely to get those court costs back on the small claims circuit. If you want a legal remedy, you can serve a court application for a fee. This would be for loss and damages arising from this event. The Trading Standards will also take an interest. Contact the trade website where you found him, and tell them what has happened. Check your house insurance as you may have legal cover included. If so, you can get legal advice and representation for free.

ZeldaWillTellYourFortune · 16/03/2023 21:50

4K? 4K???

What did I just read??

I've had jobs like that done for 500 or 600.

I would fight it but that's because I don't let rude men push me around.

TaRaDeBumDeAy · 16/03/2023 21:50

I wouldn't have sent 4k, wtf.

I'd have sent him the cost of 18hrs - 2 men, 1 days work - plus machinery, and that's it- but he'd get as good as he gave if he tried that waste dump shit with me.

ZeldaWillTellYourFortune · 16/03/2023 21:50

Can you quickly cancel the cheque? has it been cashed?

Sandra1984 · 16/03/2023 21:50

go to the website and find out if you can leave a bad review, maybe they have a google business listing and you van leave another bad review there too.

Namechangedforthisonetoday · 16/03/2023 21:52

I understand what people are saying about refusing to pay, giving as good as you get, but the people that do this will give OP merry hell and that’s why I’m wondering if the police have given any advice as to how to proceed.

Waterfallgirl · 16/03/2023 21:52

This is awful, you must be worried and angry.
I am guessing you are not in the uk OP? (Only because you mention ‘ Sidewalk ‘ and ‘garbage’ and the ‘city’ tidying up. )
So, in which case some of the numbers/ suggestions on here might not apply to you, but do you have a citizens advice service who could help you make a complaint against him? Do small traders have an online register you could use to complain?
As well as assault, fly tipping, he is also harassing you , I’d call the police again and report, surely they can take action?

LDN1 · 16/03/2023 21:54

Never pay by the hour. Ever.

Get a quote for a specific job and that's that.

In your situ' now... your husband isn't wrong. But then neither are you. Life is short and there's an argument to just have it all put to bed - but I'd be pursuing the assault charge and harassment. Also trading standards. But I'd avoid reviews and any 'extra' stuff for now.

Growlybear83 · 16/03/2023 21:56

Presumably you got a written quotation with an estimate of the total number of hours that would be needed to carry out the work? If you didn't, then I don't really see that you've got much comeback in terms of the amount you were charged. If you did get a quote, why would you pay so much more?

SheSaidHummingbird · 16/03/2023 21:56

My incentive would be to make sure that no other person is assaulted like you were. I'm so sorry you had to experience this, and please take care of yourself.

adriftinadenofvipers · 16/03/2023 21:59

QueenoftheAngles · 16/03/2023 21:17

I wouldn’t firstly because they sound very unpleasant and I wouldn’t give them an excuse to engage with you again but mainly because the police/trading standards/environment agency might want to prosecute them and if you go public at this stage you could jeopardise that.

I wouldn't put anything on social media because I'd be fearful of some comeback from this thug.

I don't want to alarm you but I'd be beefing up your home security where possible. You don't know exactly what you are dealing with here, but as someone who is prepared to lift a hand to a woman, you have a pretty good idea about him.

pollykitty · 16/03/2023 21:59

GyozaGuiting · 16/03/2023 21:39

You shouldn't have paid 4k for a few hours work! Go after them. Trading standards and a lawyer, I've got money back (not work men but poor standard of work in another field), and got every penny back.

What type of lawyer do you know? Is it like 'consumer law'? I have never hired a lawyer except when I got divorced.

OP posts:
JennieMassie · 16/03/2023 22:03

Sounds like a nightmare. Check if you have legal expenses insurance. If so, you can see whether your insurance will cover a claim against them. I think doing it without a solicitor would be too stressful and it would be too costly if not covered by legal expenses insurance. Also, definitely get the best CCTV system you can, if only for your own peace of mind.

pollykitty · 16/03/2023 22:03

Waterfallgirl · 16/03/2023 21:52

This is awful, you must be worried and angry.
I am guessing you are not in the uk OP? (Only because you mention ‘ Sidewalk ‘ and ‘garbage’ and the ‘city’ tidying up. )
So, in which case some of the numbers/ suggestions on here might not apply to you, but do you have a citizens advice service who could help you make a complaint against him? Do small traders have an online register you could use to complain?
As well as assault, fly tipping, he is also harassing you , I’d call the police again and report, surely they can take action?

I'm American, those be American words lol.
I have an appointment with the police tomorrow to file a complaint.

OP posts:
StoppinBy · 16/03/2023 22:04

I would keep away from social media until after its settled.

Those things blow up pretty easily and it's best to appear calm, cool and collected if you want to be taken seriously.

pollykitty · 16/03/2023 22:05

TaRaDeBumDeAy · 16/03/2023 21:50

I wouldn't have sent 4k, wtf.

I'd have sent him the cost of 18hrs - 2 men, 1 days work - plus machinery, and that's it- but he'd get as good as he gave if he tried that waste dump shit with me.

It's great that you're so 'tough'. I don't know where he lives and am not interested in exacting revenge. Having said that, he clearly had no issue with the police being called. I think he's like, yeah yeah yeah. whatever.
So with someone like that, it's pretty scary. He's a nutter. We were trying to appease him and yeah, I agree we paid too much.
But I also didn't want to be, like, murdered.

OP posts:
Namechangedforthisonetoday · 16/03/2023 22:06

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

pollykitty · 16/03/2023 22:07

JennieMassie · 16/03/2023 22:03

Sounds like a nightmare. Check if you have legal expenses insurance. If so, you can see whether your insurance will cover a claim against them. I think doing it without a solicitor would be too stressful and it would be too costly if not covered by legal expenses insurance. Also, definitely get the best CCTV system you can, if only for your own peace of mind.

Wow, that is such a good idea. Legal insurance did not occur to me. Yes I think we do have it.

OP posts:
PearCrumbleCustard · 16/03/2023 22:08

You need to record everything that has happened written down, and make sure that the police have this.

Don’t go on social media, don’t leave a bad review, don’t contact them, don’t try to sue.

These people assaulted you and tried to dump waste on your garden, they are dangerous and you need to know that they are being investigated by both the police and trading standards, and that you are now safe. So I would put a security camera out and block their number.

Fragrantandfoolish · 16/03/2023 22:13

Honestly, as this thug was willing to attack you. I’d let it go. I think your husband is right. I’d not escalate it further. For your own safety . I know it’s not fair to let bullies win but taking further action maybe something you bitterly regret

kirinm · 16/03/2023 22:14

If you went via checkatrade, I'd contact them. Something like that must surely get them kicked off a site.

ChestnutGrove · 16/03/2023 22:15

I'm so sorry op. They are scumbags

JudgeJ · 16/03/2023 22:15

BeStrongLittleRodney · 16/03/2023 20:48

I’m amazed you paid anything more than you were quoted!

sorry you were assaulted, hope he gets charged

That's why I always insist on a written quote. I had a tree removed and a fence rebuilt, there were two men working on it for about 5 hours, ie 10 man-hours, and they hardly stopped all day, with the materials for the fence, the removal of the tree and its disposal I was charged £350 which I thought was a bargain. When I was having a shower replaced the plumber was so apologetic that he'd found some of the wood beneath to be in need of replacement so it would be another £60.