Dispute with builder escalated to assault

[pollykitty]

I had a bizarre violent altercation today with a builder, and I don't know what to think or do about it anymore. I think I am still in shock and would appreciate some objective advice.

The long version: A couple of weeks ago I was looking for someone to clear a part of our garden. An old shed, overgrown area, old rotten swing set and small patio (not cement, like klinker stones). I could not find anyone and posted on one of these sites where you tell them about the job and then tradespeople get in contact to make quotes. This young guy (called Ollie) got in touch almost immediately. He has a company and everything. He came around with a coworker and they seemed ok. He said he could clear my garden in a day with a small digger and would send me a quote. Since it was a bit of an unknown quanitity in terms of labor, he quoted 45/hr per man and for the digger and diesel. Since he said it would take 1 day, I thought ok, that would be fast and expensive (around 1,600). But alright.

Three of them showed up on a the day (last Thursday) around 10:30am and started working. No digger in site. They disappeared at lunchtime for 3 hours. Came back and said 'we had to go do something else'. Worked a bit again, digger arrived at 3pm and they left again for 2 hours with a full trailer. Came back at did some more until 7pm (ug). But it wasn't done. And when they left the house, the passageway through the garage/house was absolutely filthy (we don't have side or rear access to our garden). Also unbeknowst to us at the time, diesel had been spilt all over the garage floor. We didn't smell it at first but then I woke up in the night gagging due to the fumes. They did clear most of the back but not everything and said they would come back next day.

On Friday two of them showed up at 10:30 and it was obvious to me by then that they were just stretching out the time as much as possible to charge me. I still thought 'ok it will be more but fine'. It was infuriating to watch though. They'd work for like 45 minutes, disappear for 2 hours, come back, disappear etc. They said the traffic to the tip was terrible. By 6pm I was fed up and wanted them out of my house. Ollie showed up at 4pm and helped them finish up. Around 7pm I actually had to kick them out of my house. They were standing in the garage smoking. Again, the house was an absolute TIP in the area near the garden. They moved furniture around, mud everywhere. It took us 2 days to fully clean up.

Any guesses as the the invoice they sent me? If you were thinking 2K or 3K or 4K you'd be wrong. 5K.

I nearly had a heart attack. They added charges that had never been mentioned to me. 800 for mileage to the tip. 800 for waste disposal. And claimed 52 hours of labor. My husband and I sat down and worked out what we thought was fair and reasonable. We accomodated the charges that were not in the offer. It came to about 3500.

We wrote a letter(email) explaining our dispute, and asked them to provide futher evidence of their work. Such as receipts from the waste site and so on. The address of the waste site (for mileage) etc. Ollie started calling me nonstop. He sent harrassing texts. His brother got involved. My husband called them and asked them to reply to the email, and we'd go from there.

To be fair they did. But their reply was nonsensical and difficult to follow and while some receipts were valid, others were dated from early March and clearly not from our house. We believe now that the reason they were gone so long was that they were picking up rubbish from other sites or even their own rubbish, adding it to our trailers, and trying to charge us. From the moment they sent their reply, they started harrassing me. I received approximately 20 phone calls last night between midnight and 3am. Texts saying if I don't pay, we're going to stick the bailiffs on you and charge interest. Etc. Also just general demands to respond.

We did respond, adding a bit more to accomodate the receipts, and sent 4000 today. We disputed the rest in a registered letter.

So he got 4000 quid 5 days after his invoice was sent. Today he the left me a voice mail saying he was going to 'dump my garden garbage on my drive unless i paid the rest of my bill'

And then he did. He showed up with his van and trailer and his mate. He didn't get on to my drive, because I moved the car to the end, but started dumping it out of the trailer on the side walk. I had literally just come home when he turned up and started filming him doing so (after calling the police) and then he assaulted me.

He shoved me and tried to punch me. Luckily it's on video.

I wasn't really hurt but unfortunately the police didn't show up until after. Of course what came then was a lot of shouting back and forth, as the police tried to descalate the situation. At first they were like, 'it's a civil matter'. But then I showed one copper the video and he changed his mind. Because he dumped a huge amount of garden sht on the pavement, the city will have to clean it up. He will fined for cleaning it up. He will receive a fine for fly tipping etc. They open a file for the assult. I should add, we were right about our theory. Not only was he lying about taking our garbage to the tip (otherwise why would he still have it??), he left stuff on the sidewalk that does not even belong to us. Including 8 huge tyres.

Now I am here typing this because my husband and I disagree about what to do (not angrily, just under discussion). I want to go to lawyer. I really don't know if I can do anything. I want to file a counter claim for a refund as he lied about going to the tip (he even said 'I have 9 more loads to dump on you' And I want to do anything I can to get this guy shut down and out of business. I want to leave the most devastingly worded google review so that no one ever hires him again. I actually believe not to do so is like, immoral on my part. Am I being overly righteous? I think he intimidates people (especially women) into paying exhorbitant bills (after luring them in with lowball offers) and he belongs in jail. I' m not saying I can make that happen, just my opinion. My husband says 'if he goes away and we never hear from him again, that's a win'. But he wasn't the one who was harrassed on the phone and via email and texts. And assaulted.

WWYD?

SHORT VERSION: Hired a builder/contractor guy. Got send a huge bill. Disputed the bill. Got assaulted.

I don't think anyone pays by cheque anymore to be honest....

I'm American but live in the UK, just to clarify

Yes I gathered that, hence my question.

That is a bargain. I had a written quote but it was also caveated as being hourly. I actually do not have a problem with hourly quotes. I work for myself and sometimes use them too. I have had many contractors work on hourly rates and never tried to charge me like this. Never really had a problem with any builders really and have lived in 4 hours in past 15 years and done loads of renovation work.
My husband thinks that he didn't want to go to court to resolve the billing dispute so this is 'little revenge'.

There's no way I would have agreed to an hourly quote - my anxiety couldn't take it 🙈

I'm so sorry this has happened to you OP - it's really shit when you've been ripped off (and assaulted...WTF?!) and feel powerless to do anything about it. Had they done that to me I wouldn't have been able to magic up an extra 3.5k, I imagine a lot of people wouldn't - do you live in a particularly affluent area? If I was a business owner I would make sure the customer had a realistic ballpark figure before I started, no point doing the work and handing over a hefty bill a customer might not be able to pay. It sounds like they've made assumptions about you (rightly I suppose because you could pay it) and added a 'posh tax'.

Give it a few weeks then get someone to ask them for a price for a similar job in a different area - if it doesn't tally with your bill then you'll have proof they're taking the piss!

OP with your language you don’t sound like you are in the UK? Therefore trading standard, CAB, council etc might mean nothing?

You have been more than generous and the police are involved. You’ve done all the right things.

The police were very clear about the dispute over the bill - that it is a civil matter and they cannot be involved. The assault is different though, obviously.
They gave me advice, like going to see a doctor immediately, which I did and what would happen when I was called to give evidence.
I have to be honest, they were annoying as fck to begin with. They said they 'couldn't do anything about garbage being dumped'. And I was like, are you fuckign kidding me. You are here, observing this. The guy was literally carrying on in front of the police. They had to call into to get advice. We are lucky in a weird way, because it's on city property and if it was on our property they would not have to clear it.

Nope, I'm just American. Have lived in UK for 20 years.

Report to trading standards

It’s a horrible situation and I’m not minimising but dumping costs an absolute fortune so it’s possible you haven’t been overcharged by a significant amount, doesn’t justify their appalling behaviour though.

Op I am so sorry this has happened to you, how awful.

Please try not to feel to bad in thinking what if, these people likely would’ve tried to rip you off anyway as soon as you agreed that they do the work, and if not you, then someone else.

Just FYI, we don’t decide to press charges in this country, please ignore any pp telling you to do so, it isn’t up to victims, or even the police themselves in a lot of instances.
You can decide to give a witness statement, if you do that then that will be used as evidence to decide against all other evidence if any charges can be brought.
Even if you do give a statement, it’s not always the case that there is enough evidence to charge someone.
Your statement is evidence and it is that which (with any other evidence) will be submitted to the CPS to decide what charges to bring.
As you have the video that will certainly help secure a charge.

I hope you do give a statement, but please understand it isn’t the victim that decides to “press charges” in the UK.

definitely enhance your home security system too, for some peace of mind if nothing else.

Cant believe he behaved like that after being paid £4k!! Total cunt.

Report to police, trading standards, local FB pages and also Watchdog.

I'm so sorry.

I’ve been in a similar position. And it was awful.

Whilst I understand your rage all that will happen is he will start a new business. Have a look at his registered business, likely a new starter.

By all means report him but don’t expect anything massive.

LEI is so worth it for the few extra pounds added to home insurance! Hope you do have it, then at least you can speak to a solicitor about options (even if you don't decide to go to court) without needing to pay 200 pounds an hour. We went through a building dispute ages ago and wished we had it back then.

They will usually take the case forward if they think there is more than 50 percent chance of success.

Good luck :)

It does sound like this is a rogue company but if they exist as an entity of any sort, here are a couple of tips we gleaned from a similar situation (following legal advice). You have a verbal contract with him (written?) under the Consumer Rights Act. You maintain that he breached this contract (by taking time out, bringing more labourers than agreed, not supplying the digger on time, working deliberately long hours etc etc). Moreover, you are not happy with the service he provided. The work is not of a quality you expected. You have suffered damages due to the 'company's' negligence - diesel on the floor, dirt in the house etc. What we were told is you need to pay the amount agreed and then take them to the small claims court to recoup your costs and damages. So although it is counter-intuitive you were right to pay but he doesn't necessarily get to keep it. Obviously you also have a record of an assault which will definitely go against them if it ever ends in court.

First check if your household insurance has legal advice attached - many have free helplines and some free access to lawyers. If not, then there is always Citizens Advice.

This is how we ended a letter in similar circumstances (drafted by a lawyer).
I would like to note that there is a clear contract between myself and XXXX and you have to abide by your obligations under the Consumer Rights Act (2015). You did not exercise reasonable care and skill as required under the CRA when undertaking this project. It is my opinion the company is in breach of this contract and has been professionally negligent.

I reserve the right to consider taking alternative action.

You also attach a Without Prejudice list of costs (make sure you write Without Prejudice at the top) to the back of this letter detailing what you think you owe him reasonably and what he owes you for negligence, damage etc and you then suggest a figure (a refund) that is acceptable to you.

And please don’t put anything on social media or anywhere else.
I don’t know why posters are advising this when the police are involved.
If it gets charged and it gets to court, the case could collapse if legal representatives claimed their clients couldn’t get a fair trial due to details being published elsewhere.

I am so sorry this happened to you, it's my worst nightmare, I had a dodgy roofer once and had to get trading standards involved, well just mentioning that I was going to them did the trick. Also had a dodgy couple of guys who cleared out my guttering during lockdown, but nothing of this hellish proportions. Did you use a site like Bark or Checkatrade? I used to use them but it was so anxiety provoking as you just can't be sure that the people who contact you are bona fide, I have the impression that any old person can register with them and then quote for jobs. I now use my local Next Door site and Age Concern recommended traders . Have found a great fencer and a fantastic plumber that way. I hope you get a good resolution to this horrible situation, this is one of the worst workman horror stories I have ever heard. I hate the whole workman thing, from the problem in my house, then trying to find one, then stressing about the cost, then the added stress of having them in my home, the anxiety as to whether they will do a good job, on and on it goes 😱

You can file via trading standards legislation up to 7 years after you discover a bad job has been done. So sorry this happened- sounds utterly awful

I think that is everyone’s worse nightmare. You’ll never get any of your money back from them. I too, think you were way overcharged and wouldn’t have agreed to more than £1k for that amount of work because it is unskilled , even with the digger and waste disposal. Saying that, I can understand wanting to be fair and wanting to just get rid of them.

I would feel as you do about wanting to name and shame them, but I think as they’ve actually assaulted you after you’ve virtually paid all of their ridiculous price, it wouldn’t be wise to further anger them. I would be so worried about them damaging my car, continuing the harassment, breaking into my house. It’s just not worth it. Pursue the assault charges as you have it on in video but don’t poke the bear on social media.

Did you pay them cash?

Op, you have to put the short version before the long version otherwise it's the longer version 😁

I think it's insane what you've paid op, awful what's happened to you.

I agree with you, and after he produced receipts, I paid for all of them that were in date and from a valid site. There were many other charges on the invoice that we disputed which I'm not going to detail here, because it's just not the point.
However, he also tried to pass off old receipts. And as I said, when he came to our house to dump this garbage, it was the last trailer he took. And then he opened up his van and omg, it was full of sht that wasn't mine.
So that's what he does. He waits until he has an opportunity to dump on someone else's bill.
Where I'm from we have an expression 'the guilty dog barks the loudest'. If he were an honest person running a legitimate business, he would have produced all the proof needed. It might have annoyed him but he would have done it. People who are honest and not about to get caught in a lie do not react so aggressively. We think he also doesn't want to go to court because he probably HAS done this before. And maybe has a previous record. Etc Etc.

No.

Haha good point.
It is insane. I wanted to send 3k but my husband was like, eh, send more and maybe he'll just leave it.
god we were wrong.
I shudder to think what his reaction would have been at 3k.