Do I have to accept that it is in fact me that’s the issue?

[MumsTheIssue]

DC is 8, Y4. This has been going on since Y2.

Perfect at school, no behaviour issues at all, no issues with academics, small but close group of friends. Quite quiet but will speak when spoken to and in the last few months growing in confidence. Eats fine.

ExH says they’re perfect there, quiet but easy going and will chat when wants to. Eats fine.

At home they’re the complete opposite:

• Violence aimed at me, repeatedly no matter what I do they keep going for up to 3 hours – if I ignore it carries on, if I try and tell them off it carries on, if I change rooms they follow me, if I put them into a different room they laugh and come back, if I talk to them they laugh and carry on

• Will not eat unless it's on a specific plate or bowl

• Does not respond to praise

• Does not respond to being given an instruction such as “Can you tidy up your toys please?” if I repeat it more firmly “Tidy up toys please” they still ignore me – if I take all their toys away they just shrug, if I stop screen time (they can earn 4 hours to be used at the weekend) they just shrug, if I stop them going to parties/activities etc. they just shrug and say they don’t care.

• I literally cannot punish them as they just don’t care. They won’t stay in timeout/a spot if they’re being violent towards me, I have tried returning them but they just laugh and think it’s a game

• Tells me they hate me regularly and they are going to live with their dad as soon as they’re old enough (they see him EOWend for 1 night only, never for school runs or appointments or anything else “boring”) but only when in a violent rage, when calm they say the love me a lot but never that they want to live with me, but they also don't say they want to live with ExH either

• School refuses – we’re regularly late for school but as soon as we’re there it’s like a lightbulb and they’re suddenly all sweetness and light

• Will not go to sleep – returning them to bed is a game again, they then fall asleep in class

What I’ve tried:

• A meeting with school for repeated lateness and falling asleep in class – they blamed me, told me to get DC up earlier (I can’t get them up any earlier, we’re already up at 6am, and they go to bed at 7.30pm) and said I needed to be “More persistent” with returning them to bed, even though DC told them it’s a fun game. They’ve told me they’ll refer it to Social Services if it keeps happening. I asked for a CAMHS referral to rule out SN and was told that DC doesn’t meet the criteria

• Took them to a private GP to rule out a medical cause – got brushed off and told it’s schools problem without them even checking DCs ears or any kind of examination - yes I demanded my money back, I was expecting at least a basic examination so I know that DC is healthy, I wasn’t demanding to the GP, I just expected a check of the ears, throat, chest (maybe nose), and maybe a basic urine test – my grandparents paid for this and where willing to pay for anything above that if the GP felt it necessary but I wasn’t even given any advice just told it’s behavioural and schools problem

• Spoke to someone for a private diagnosis of SN and told that I need schools backing for them to do so I can’t go down that route

• Took them to a private physio when they complained of pain (again my Grandparents paid for this) – who was very very good, but couldn’t find a physical issue and just advised me to get some properly fitted shoes for DC (which I did and hasn’t improved the behaviour at home)

I feel like I’m going mad. I’m looking into an EHCNA, but Sendiass have said if school are saying it’s a home problem and ExH is saying he has no issues with DC there then it will be an uphill battle that may not be won. I’m considering asking for a course of private play therapy from my grandparents, but I don’t want to keep taking money off them if I can help it.

Do I just accept I’m the issue? And if so how do I change? ExH will not parent full time so I have to. So it’s not an option for me to give in or give DC up though at times I have considered it

Does this sound familiar to anyone? Being fine at school and the NRPs but then coming home and just exploding. DC is always sorry but can’t seem to explain what happens when they’re in those moods. It’s not all bad, but I am so exhausted and feel like I can’t relax in case DC explodes.

Why are you so persistent?

Why do you think yours is the only opinion that counts?

Why do you think you have any authority to tell people what to post?

It's boring now. Boring. Go away.

That's ok, you're entitled to your opinion, and we're entitled to ours.

You do need to recognise though that this child has not returned from an assessment that says NOT autistic either. It is something that needs to be ruled out.

@ColonelDax

bloomin heck… what you regard as “naughty” is some seriously horrendous and disturbing behaviour from an 8 year old based on my experience of parenting

Sounds like you’ve had a bloody difficult time too

It's fine to discuss other possibilities but not fine to ignore the very real possibility that there is a ND/diagnosis because to not consider this would be extremely detrimental in the case there is one.

There is a real struggle for parents especially single parents to gain access to help for children with additional needs, we don't need people making disparaging comments that could influence a parent of such a child to not successfully access help they need.

Slightly off topic, but you mentioned telling them they can't go to birthday parties when they misbehave. Please can I suggest you don't do that. It's not fair on the birthday child / family to cancel on the day

It's common for children to mask in some settings and then it all comes out at home where they feel safe, so maybe that's happening

Or, perhaps school / ex have more consistent boundaries & consequences. It's difficult for strangers to know what's happening

But it does sound tough

I'd suggest asking social work for advice about parenting classes you could go to. They're really helpful. Our local authority offers them for free, as they want to encourage people to view it like ante natal classes ie helpful for all, no stigma in attending

It's not the only one that can be heard at all, but OP needs to explore other, far more likely options before she goes down the medical route.

By all means get an assessment but if a child is well behaved in every environment except one, there is a very good chance it's the environment that is the problem, and not the child.

@GandhiDeclaredWarOnYou just curious did your DS get diagnosed with anything or did they grow out of it. Just you said aged 7-9 and my DS in that age group sounds very similar! I’m hoping it’s just a phase 🙈

This is really sensible and measured advice.

It's not the only one that can be heard at all, but OP needs to explore other, far more likely options before she goes down the medical route.

It's a suggestion if an assessment. Before an assessment is done OP would have the chance to put her concerns across to the right people who would then decide whether or not to proceed with a full assessment or signpost to elsewhere.

By all means get an assessment but if a child is well behaved in every environment except one, there is a very good chance it's the environment that is the problem, and not the child.

This is actually bullshit.

@ColonelDax "a low discipline environment" 🤔How incredibly judgemental! The OP has tried praise, she's tried discipline, she's tried GP, she's tried school.. she's literally told us that she's tried everything, and your take on it is that?

By all means get an assessment but if a child is well behaved in every environment except one, there is a very good chance it's the environment that is the problem, and not the child.

Lol.

You so very obviously do not understand autism.

Nor do you want to.

I'll hazard a guess that you rather enjoy parent blaming. Perhaps it gives you a sense of superiority. Your children would never behave so badly because you parent correctly.

My friend's autistic daughter is was exactly like this at this age.

@ColonelDax, apparently not!!

My experience with my daughter was very similar from age 3-11, daily violent horrendous meltdowns at home but good as good at school and at her dads.

There is ASC in the family and I work closely with ASC teens. There were signs but I didn’t think enough to meet threshold. I never went down the diagnosis route.

I agree with the poster who advised love bombing. Ignoring the bad as much as possible and ensuring your DC knows they are loved and valued unconditionally.

You are not at fault. Get reading and try different approaches. As you can see here you are not alone! So many have similar experiences, get support for you first and foremost so you have the energy to weather DC as their brain develops to a time where they have more control.

Change schools and Dr's yours are fucking useless

Tell the school to feel free to refer you to early help or self refer if you like they can't just "call social services" because of what they consider "poor parenting"

Honestly my kids have been like this right down to the sleep refusal and violent behaviour and yes it is exasperated by piss poor parenting by their FATHER who saw them for 6 hours a week refused all overnights and is a right asshole

Also not every child who behaves in school but not at home does not have autism. It can be hard to get assessed in those circumstances

A very late diagnosis of ASD. Which made a lot of sense, but because he’s pretty dazzlingly articulate he was able to mask extremely well. That lad wields words as both sword and shield.

All the people not believing the masking have no idea what they are talking about. I have had very similar issues with a child. It’s very typical for children with high functioning autism especially, but not only, girls to mask with school/ people they don’t trust and have complete meltdowns with the people they feel safe with. I am not in the UK and I know that there is a big fear of SS in the UK but where I live, I found education welfare officers, social workers etc very helpful in terms of resources etc to help my child. Maybe call the school’s bluff and let them call SS in.
I really don’t believe that this is the fault of your parenting. You are having such a tough time and you deserve support for this and not snarking about your parenting.

Oh for heaven’s sake, we’re describing our experiences and how the OP’s chimed with us. No one’s saying it has to be AHDH or ASD, but in our cases that’s what it turned out to be.

I have had a child counselor come to DC's school and explain masking and shaken bottle syndrome to us. It's a case of a closed bottle of fizzy drink thrown around in different environments and then just exploding once they are in an environment they consider safe. As someone suggested, please keep a log of when this happens and what triggers them. Then if you take it to your regular GP they should be able to atleast put your name on the list. I do know there is private diagnosis on neuro diversity, however they are freaking expensive. Hugs to you OP, I know it doesn't seem like it, but you are already doing the best you can, don't blame yourself.

Why do people use 'They' for a child?

Haven't you just told us you put your child in an empty room for days? Do you want to take a guess what word came to my mind when I read that? Feel quite concerned for what's going on in that house tbh.

When you've experienced SN you tend to be able to spot it when stuff is listed. Not all of us punish our kids by sticking them in jail for days.

Autistic traits cross over with attachment/developmental trauma traits too. I therefore think it’s very early to assume it’s autism without exploring the impact of possible trauma and ACEs too.

I have one child with a primary diagnosis of autism and another with a primary diagnosis of attachment disorder/developmental trauma. Both initially masked at school. The one affected by trauma is more aggressive and goes into flight or fight more quickly.

I would love to know exactly what some people mean by 'discipline' because they're quick to shout about it, but generally pretty reluctant to come up with specifics.

How would you discipline a child who has had everything removed from them, there are no screens, no toys, no books, nothing (this was the 1980s...). They have a bed. They can come down for meals. Thats it.

And the child does not care, there is either lying on the bed lost in their own head; asleep; hurling verbal and physical abuse at the parent and sibling.

This was my sister - at 8 she'd knocked our mother out at least twice, she'd used weapons on multiple occasions to lash out both in the moment and later on to exact her 'justice' for whatever wrong had been done to her.

Physical discipline did not work, short term she might be sobbing after being smacked but it didn't 'snap her out' of anything, and long term it made her worse - much more willing to hit, kick, bite and throw much earlier on in a meltdown. Much more likely to have a meltdown in the first place.

Being asked nicely, being told firmly - none of this worked. The only thing that made the tiniest bit of difference was being physically removed from certain places, and the idea that certain favourite people would think badly of her. So she'd behave for them, in those places, but nowhere else, she did not generalise at all.

So... what do you do, if talking nicely, asking nicely, speaking firmly, telling a child 'no' etc doesn't work, and there is nothing else you can take away from them that they care about?

Starve them, lock them up, beat them up? Is that where you're going with this? Because until you have LIVED with this, I can promise you, you have no fucking clue whatsoever.

@MumsTheIssue - this sounds so similar to my best friend's DS. He has presented with significantly challenging behaviours at home for years including him physically lashing out at her, telling her he wished she was dead etc. No issues in school, model student. Very much focused on her and her parenting capacity (she's a bloody great mother, had read every parenting book, patient, empathetic, boundaries) - offering her parenting classes etc. Then reasonably quickly he started to decline in school and then things got really bad in school, he started being excluded from school repeatedly. Anyway long story short she paid for a private assessment of him which came back with diagnosis of ADHD and ASD. She make self application for EHCP as school wouldn't support at that point as said needed to wait several more terms, anyway she got the EHCP including 1:1 TA. He was amazing at masking at school until he wasn't.