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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To suggest putting trousers on to go out in the snow

347 replies

Shebelievedshecouldbutshecba · 08/03/2023 19:49

DS was being taken to football today. Was in football kit ready to go. DH asked him to put trousers on before getting in the car, given it was snowing. DS refused point blank. DH said he wasn’t taking him unless he put the trousers on. I agreed. DS refused, so DH wouldn’t take him and we now have had a 2h tantrum (with screaming) about what awful parents we are.

WWBU? I don’t think we were. Would have taken him less than a minute to put the trousers on, the consequence of not doing so was clearly laid out, and then we followed through with the consequence.

And any guesses how old DS is?

OP posts:
Rachie1973 · 08/03/2023 23:17

Shebelievedshecouldbutshecba · 08/03/2023 20:13

He’s 12. Some good posts here, I have showed DH the thread and we are both taking points on board.

12??

let him experience cold legs. He’ll either not be bothered or wear trousers next time.

TheBigWangTheory · 08/03/2023 23:18

Climbles · 08/03/2023 23:12

Im referring back to my point that people who are raising children to question authority and not to have to listen to their own parents are creating a wider issue in society which will play out in schools.

Show quote history

Are you raising your children to never question authority...even when the authority is wrong or stupid?

That's a very serious issue, one that could be very damaging for your children. You should really rethink your policy here.

Suzi888 · 08/03/2023 23:20

YABU
He’s 12.
The other boys are likely wearing…. Shorts.
Let em freeze. 😂

JesusMaryAndJosephAndTheWeeDon · 08/03/2023 23:26

Gonners · 08/03/2023 21:23

I asked our postie about that. He said it's because in rain or snow the bottoms of their trousers get sopping wet, and the water wicks up, which is much nastier and colder.

Show quote history

Yes, bare legs are actually safer in terms of hypothermia than lots of "normal" trousers, especially in cold wet weather. Cotton kills as the mountaineers say.

Fansandblankets · 08/03/2023 23:27

I’d say 5/6 or under. Hopefully an older child isn’t having 2 hour tantrums. You were right in this case.

Climbles · 08/03/2023 23:31

TheBigWangTheory · 08/03/2023 23:18

Are you raising your children to never question authority...even when the authority is wrong or stupid?

That's a very serious issue, one that could be very damaging for your children. You should really rethink your policy here.

Show quote history

I’d expect them to put trousers on when it’s snowing if I asked them to. My children don’t like shorts without something underneath so it’s not come up. They do argue over bed time, screen time, what they eat, etc etc and often I am flexible but if I put my foot down because it’s in their best interest then yes I expect them to do it rather than have a 2 hour tantrum and end up missing their activity.
They are also raised to understand real boundaries around their bodies being touched or being hurt by adults.

Energydrink · 08/03/2023 23:46

YANBU
I feel like people are confusing permissive parenting and natural consequences. Natural consequences does not mean be a hands off parent and allow them to make whatever choice they want.

If given a reasonable request they decided not to oblige , the natural consequence in this instance is no lift. Why would you send your child into a condition they would feel uncomfortable in just to teach them the lesson.

presumably they wouldn’t be wearing the shorts until just before they start running round. At which point they would of course warm up, until that point - trousers!

that being said, if they were older than 13… I would leave them to it

JudgeRudy · 09/03/2023 00:19

@Climbles He was so entitled he threw a 2 hour fit rather than comply with a totally reasonable request from his parents. It’s not the same as just not wanting to wear joggers.

Well in the literal sense of the word I'd say that yes he was entitled....entitled to have autonomy over his body and decline dad's request. The request wasnt unreasonable, the insistence was. The thing is he actually did 'just not want to wear joggers' but when he declined, the request then became an order. When he was 'non compliant' he was punished.
He can't go no contact. He can't move out or get himself there and drive off. The power balance is incredible. He did not know how to handle it emotionally so he threw a fit and 'expressed himself' likely till him collapsed sobbing with exhaustion. I don't for one minute think this will teach him a lesson.....certainly not the one parents expect. What he's learnt today is he has no voice.

Climbles · 09/03/2023 00:49

JudgeRudy · 09/03/2023 00:19

@Climbles He was so entitled he threw a 2 hour fit rather than comply with a totally reasonable request from his parents. It’s not the same as just not wanting to wear joggers.

Well in the literal sense of the word I'd say that yes he was entitled....entitled to have autonomy over his body and decline dad's request. The request wasnt unreasonable, the insistence was. The thing is he actually did 'just not want to wear joggers' but when he declined, the request then became an order. When he was 'non compliant' he was punished.
He can't go no contact. He can't move out or get himself there and drive off. The power balance is incredible. He did not know how to handle it emotionally so he threw a fit and 'expressed himself' likely till him collapsed sobbing with exhaustion. I don't for one minute think this will teach him a lesson.....certainly not the one parents expect. What he's learnt today is he has no voice.

But it is actually just wearing joggers. Something many of the other boys will be doing. He dug his heels in and it didn’t pay off so he threw a tantrum. It’s not some major infliction on his rights.

JudgeRudy · 09/03/2023 01:38

@Climbles But it is actually just wearing joggers. Something many of the other boys will be doing. He dug his heels in and it didn’t pay off so he threw a tantrum. It’s not some major infliction on his rights.

We're not going to agree are we. OK is IS just wearing joggers......just as it IS just declining to wear joggers (that are neither wanted or needed). He dug his heels in....yes Dad did dig his heels in and it didn't pay off....for anyone!
What is the reasoning for insisting he wear the joggers? I'm genuinely perplexed. Am I missing something? Why not a bobble hat or a yellow jumper? It seems that what you're saying is his parents can order him to do anything without rhyme or reason simply because they're the boss. Isn't that a perfect example of an infliction of rights?

Sunnydays0101 · 09/03/2023 01:44

Surely your Thread title is misleading - you didn’t suggest be wore the trousers - you ordered him to.

Puppers · 09/03/2023 06:40

Climbles · 08/03/2023 23:02

They went saying ‘do as I say because I’m in charge’ they were saying ‘do as I say because I genuinely thinks it’s in your best interests’.

Show quote history

But he knew what he needed. He knew that he didn't need to wear trousers because he is 12 and he knows his own body and understands what cold weather is. He didn't need an authority figure to overrule his own decision about his body. And whilst it may have started out from a place of caring about him, it very quickly escalated to him being punished for not following an order. It became purely about the parents winning the battle of the wills, rather than concede the "defeat" of letting him make a reasonable choice as a 12 year old about his own comfort levels. Lazy parenting. And ego driven.

carriedout · 09/03/2023 06:44

Climbles · 08/03/2023 23:12

Im referring back to my point that people who are raising children to question authority and not to have to listen to their own parents are creating a wider issue in society which will play out in schools.

Show quote history

This is a very reactionary attitude, it isn't how child rearing actually works. My children are much older, I feel I've seen a lot of other people's children too, and I was a teacher.

It is not the kids of reasonable parents who caused the problems in schools or society.

The power of modelling in parenting is huge. To model unbending stubbornness over small things is not healthy for society.

The parents in the op were wrong. They boxed themselves into a corner over nothing. A wise parent saves that level of enforcement for the things that really matter.

redskylight · 09/03/2023 07:39

Climbles · 08/03/2023 22:14

I think most of the post on here are crazy. You asked him to do something completely reasonable and he refused. So why should you ferry him about? Thats why so many kids feel like they don’t have to listen to authority because their parents allow them to ignore them with no follow through. I bet you next time you ask him to do something he’ll do it because he knows he needs to take you seriously.

This is the way I was parented. I did what my parents said without questioning or I got punished.

It's left me with massive self confidence issues (I can't trust my own opinion, because I'll have to back down if it's different to what my parents think), I have massive fear of any sort of conflict (as it led to punishment as a child, as an adult people used it to take advantage or abuse me) and I've spent most of my life scared to do anything for fear it is "wrong". And guess what. The reasonable things my parents asked me to do weren't always right for me. And some of them with the lens of time weren't even reasonable.

The OP asked her DC to do something reasonable (put his trousers on because it was cold). He listened to her and made a measured response (I'm not cold and can manage without them). Continuing to insist is now not reasonable, but just her exerting control because she has more power than him. A sensible compromise, as many have said, would be just to chuck the trousers in the car, in case.

CleaningOutMyCloset · 09/03/2023 07:44

I think you and your dh are being vvvvv U. He's 12 and perfectly capable of making his own decisions on what to wear, and living with the consequences of being cold.

I'm not surprised he had a 2 hr tantrum, and completely agree with him. You've not only let him down, but you've let his whole team down. What an utterly ridiculous hill to die in op.

Jimboscott0115 · 09/03/2023 08:02

I would ask if either of you have ever played football? And if so in trousers? Because within 2 minutes, no matter how cold it is - they'd be overheating. It's the same with a hoodie or hat, great for warm ups but they come off straight away while training or in a game.

Elsanore · 09/03/2023 08:13

He might be one of life's Shorts Men. I've noticed them around throughout life. Men who wear shorts all the time no matter what. PE teachers. Walkers in the countryside. Boys at primary or secondary school. Sporty 6th formers/ uni students. Some men are just Shorts Men. Let him get on with it I say, while providing other leg wear options.

CleaningOutMyCloset · 09/03/2023 08:42

Elsanore · 09/03/2023 08:13

He might be one of life's Shorts Men. I've noticed them around throughout life. Men who wear shorts all the time no matter what. PE teachers. Walkers in the countryside. Boys at primary or secondary school. Sporty 6th formers/ uni students. Some men are just Shorts Men. Let him get on with it I say, while providing other leg wear options.

This is my dh, I can't remember the last time I saw him in long trousers. I've got photos of him in the snow, walking the dogs, coat, hat, walking boots and shorts Grin

Nimbostratus100 · 09/03/2023 09:02

AS someone regularly in charge of children outside, I am very concerned about the number of people who think hypothermia isn't a consideration - it happens

As a scientist I am very concerned at the number of people here who think that running around warms you up - it doesn't, it cools you down

Some posters on here seem to think if they take a child out inadequately dressed in snow, they could run around to keep warm

This is a perfect recipe for serious hypothermia

Just for the record, if you are trapped in snow - FOR GOODNESS SAKE don't run around or tell anyone else to. Huddle together as close as possible and keep still

Climbles · 09/03/2023 09:12

Would the posters here claiming the OP is unreasonable also never tell their children to go to bed? The same thing applies surely. He knows if he is tired, the consequences are to him alone. I don’t understand why telling him he should wear appropriate clothing for the weather, then following through when he flatly refuses is so terrible. Sometimes 12 year olds don’t know what’s in their best interests. I find the posters claiming she will have affected him for life and he will be vulnerable to abuse frankly ridiculous.

RudsyFarmer · 09/03/2023 09:16

This is a ‘pick your battles’ moment. Us oldies who have dealt with this copious times would have packed a bag with appropriate clothing in it and if the child is small, wait for them to be cold and change them. If they are older - stuffed it in their school bag and cracked on. If they’re adolescents i honestly would have just let them get cold. Life’s too short for this shit. Honestly.

CleaningOutMyCloset · 09/03/2023 09:33

Climbles · 09/03/2023 09:12

Would the posters here claiming the OP is unreasonable also never tell their children to go to bed? The same thing applies surely. He knows if he is tired, the consequences are to him alone. I don’t understand why telling him he should wear appropriate clothing for the weather, then following through when he flatly refuses is so terrible. Sometimes 12 year olds don’t know what’s in their best interests. I find the posters claiming she will have affected him for life and he will be vulnerable to abuse frankly ridiculous.

The bed scenario is completely different!

As for the shorts, surely it's a case of pick your battles, but also give him the opportunity to make his own mistakes and decisions, to punish a 12 yr old (and all his team mates) by not taking him to football is just ridiculous, totally out of proportion.

Let him get cold, or chuck a pair of joggers in the car. Surely it's far better for him, to enable him to make his decisions whilst you are with him, and also for him to get fresh air and exercise rather than punish him.

FatGirlSwim · 09/03/2023 09:36

Energydrink · 08/03/2023 23:46

YANBU
I feel like people are confusing permissive parenting and natural consequences. Natural consequences does not mean be a hands off parent and allow them to make whatever choice they want.

If given a reasonable request they decided not to oblige , the natural consequence in this instance is no lift. Why would you send your child into a condition they would feel uncomfortable in just to teach them the lesson.

presumably they wouldn’t be wearing the shorts until just before they start running round. At which point they would of course warm up, until that point - trousers!

that being said, if they were older than 13… I would leave them to it

No lift isn’t a natural consequence. That’s an artificial consequence imposed by parents. Natural consequences means letting children learn from the consequences of their actions. Being cold would be the natural consequence of his choice.

Rubyupbeat · 09/03/2023 10:06

I don't understand why you just didn't let him learn for himself, rather than engage in a big screaming fallout. Being cold doesn't make you ill, just very uncomfortable.
My son used to refuse to wear a coat and it was a stressful battle each time, until I decided to let him decide for himself, after 2 times without, he decided wearing a coat wasn't a bad idea.

redskylight · 09/03/2023 10:13

Climbles · 09/03/2023 09:12

Would the posters here claiming the OP is unreasonable also never tell their children to go to bed? The same thing applies surely. He knows if he is tired, the consequences are to him alone. I don’t understand why telling him he should wear appropriate clothing for the weather, then following through when he flatly refuses is so terrible. Sometimes 12 year olds don’t know what’s in their best interests. I find the posters claiming she will have affected him for life and he will be vulnerable to abuse frankly ridiculous.

Of course you tell a young child to go to bed.

By the time a child gets old enough to understand how much sleep they need and that lack of sleep/not being rested affects how they feel the next day, they should be setting their own bedtime. If they persistently go to bed too late and are unproductive and grouchy the next day, then the parent can step back in and "suggest" that they need to go to bed earlier.

The problem with this example is not the OP suggesting that her DS should wear trousers. It's the fact that she's ignored his response. If this was the latest in a line of scenarios where the DS refused to wear warm clothing and came home crying with the pain of the cold, then she would be at liberty to point out that that's why she's asking and that the fact he though he'd be fine was demonstrably incorrect.

My parents made me go to bed at 7.30pm until I was 15 (when I was allowed to stay up until 8). They insisted I needed the sleep. I really didn't. They didn't know better than I did - they just thought they did.