To think my SD1 is an entitled brat?

[UlrikaUmbridge]

Firstly I will say- I do adore, very much consider her a part of my family but I’m sick of her behaviour.

I have two stepchildren- aged 21 and 15 and 3 of my own who are all primary school age.

I work from home, and SD2 is also home schooled.

I met their dad 10 years ago now- he had been living in the UAE with his ex wife (and the girls mum), nasty divorce and he got full custody after a very long court battle. We have always got on well, with difficulty at the start as the girls were not used to having a loving maternal figure in their lives.

SD1 has been a handful since 16- when she argues with her Dad, she calls her mum and flys over there, will refuse to speak to us until 2/3 weeks later she’s crying down the phone wanting to come home. And, of course, we welcome her back with open arms.

She moved out last year as she had a good job (mobile hairdresser). Her dad offered to build her a salon in the basement of our new house and also a sort of mini studio flat for her to live in.

The agreement was while she was building up a client base, we wouldn’t charge her rent for 6 months but there would be ground rules- if you out past 10 don’t come home as it will wake the other children, boyfriend allowed to stay at weekends but not every night and in exchange she would babysit once a week so me and DH could have a night out.

Obviously she is on our electricity and gas. I have a rule that the heating goes on at 5-8pm, no earlier or later. She insists on putting it on at 9am ”because it’s bad for business otherwise”

Its 8 months later- she hasn’t paid a penny in rent (keeping in mind we only ask for £100pw to cover the cost of electricity/gas, water, insurance, her rent and food). When we bring it up with her- she threatens to go back to her mums, so DH gives in. Coupled with the fact she regularly comes in past 10, loudly banging doors which wakes the children up and most nights sneaks her boyfriend in- we aren’t a fucking BNB

She is costing us a fortune and is making a decent amount of money- has booked 3 holidays this year, swanky new car and parcels of clothes and makeup turn up at least 3 times a week.

DH is being a spineless twat- I understand he wants her here, and I genuinely do too, but we can’t fund her forever surely?

She's 21, not 14. At her age, most young people have been to university and have spent a lot of time crashing at goodness knows where and making crap choices. It's part of growing up between 18 and 21. A 21 yr old with a job ought to be living elsewhere, where she can come and go as she pleases without bothering anyone else. The husband is at fault here for not helping her to become properly independent.

A bit of both. I have a 21 year old still at home (final year of uni) who has a boyfriend of 5 years. She works part time so pays for things on an ad hoc basis. I agree your sd should be paying rent now she's working full time, but I don't think her behaviour is that abnormal for her age, dad needs to speak to her and set this up properly, I doubt she'll run back to mum over this as what would would happen with her client base then - she's manipulating you both with this I think!

10pm rule is ridiculous! The poor girl it's her home, surely you can't expect her in at that time every night, on a weekend the night is just beginning at that point! What's she supposed to say to friends? That she can only come out if she can stay at theirs after? I bet her friend's parents think that's lovely of you.....

Same with the boyfriend, why inly at weekends? She's not a school girl.

Also the heating, it's freezing first thing still, I can't imagine many people would want to sit still for an hour or so in a chilly room, whilst paying for the privilege. She's right, the clients won't be happy about that.

Would any of your rules relax if she was paying rent?

Time to get together and sort the lack of payong up or let her go on her way.
Ligten up on your rules the girls is now a 21 yr old woman.
With a business, good on her.

Your issue isn't your SD, but your DH!

Sorry missed that her rent was weekly! That’s over the top, £200 per month max. You seem very strict.

Get a standing order set up for the rent. Do a paper version - get your DH to stand over her whilst she signs it then he posts it to her bank. If she cancels it or it's recalled due to lack of funds then she needs to be told she's out.

I think you’re daft to build her a salon in the basement and then say she can’t have the heating on. You won’t get clients returning to a cold salon. The 10pm curfew is also ridiculous.

She’s an adult and needs to be making her own way in life and your DH needs to back off and give her more freedom. Surely she’d be better off renting a chair in a salon and moving out to her own place, with her boyfriend if she wants to?

It sounds like she was enjoying her independence and then her dad bribed her to come back home. She is resentful so she is pushing it as far as she can as she doesn’t really care if she gets chucked out. If I was 21 and lived at home with 4 siblings I’d be out the door at the first opportunity. Instead she’s working from the family basement and not having any interaction with her peers so missing out on friendships and fun. However well intended the home salon idea was, it’s not working. Have a sit down meeting with her and ask her what she really wants. If it is the home salon, then she must immediately pay rent for this month, plus an amount towards heating (she really cannot run a business without heating). If not, she should be encouraged to find a chair in a salon starting April and also to move out. Her father’s own dependence on her and lack of boundary setting is stopping her from growing up. He needs to lead the meeting and treat her like an adult and she in turn needs to behave like one.

No, it would be dangerous for any young adult woman to be told they have to find a random person's house to sleep in after 10pm.

At uni for example, halls or flats don't have doors that lock you out after 10pm or even midnight or 1am. If they did, consequences would be bad as for example you might feel obliged to stay with a man you weren't comfortable with just to have a warm place to sleep that night.

You sound very uptight. And this thread is very very outing

To summarise -
She's supposed to be paying a tiny rent for her business premises, studio and food. She doesn't.
She wants the heating on for longer - but doesn't actually pay anything for it.
When she's been out at night she comes back making enough noise to wake the household, she does it deliberately knowing she'll wake up young kids and doesn't care in the slightest. If she didn't do that you wouldn't have asked her to be in by 10 or stay away.
She and her boyfriend help themselves to the family food, even to the point where you don't have what you need in the morning.
She'd like to move her boyfriend in so he can freeload off you and her dad as well.

I don't know why you're getting a hard time here Op, she's treating you and the rest of the family like shit. I don't know what you can do with her dad being so useless about it. But obviously she needs to be charged more rent, reflecting the fact that she is living and running a business in the house - then the heating costs won't be an issue. If she doesn't pay ideally she would need to be given her marching orders with no messing.

The amount she pays needs to be enough to cover the food they eat. Or she needs a fridge freezer and cupboard in her accommodation somewhere and told to get her own.
But this is MN Op, so you're the big bad stepmother. The fact that you're dealing with a nasty, entitled and spoilt adult is neither here nor there. No respect, no consideration and unprincipled enough to have no problem with keeping all her income to herself while fleecing the rest of the family. What a gem.

YABU about the heating. Her clients are sitting still in a chair, it needs to be really warm. I WFH anf have the thermostat at 18/19 and that is with 2 jumpers, fingerless gloves and a scarf. When you get your hair cut, you can't be wearing all that.

Does the basement area have a separate entrance and kitchen? YANBU about coming in, making noise and eating the DC's packed lunches. She needs to be more considerate.

It does sound like she has had a shit childhood and adolescence. I suspect there is a lot of resentment there and a wish to punish her dad, you and the younger DC who are having a better childhood than she had. She may feel that her dad has a debt to repay to her.

Talking all that through and acknowledging how difficult things have been for her might go a long way.

Your issue isn't your SD, but your DH!

I agree!

Your DH sounds like a kind man and a good dad but he is making his children spoilt and that will do them no favours.
Daddy is not always going to be there to bail her out.

I think the 10pm rule is ridiculous and she needs to be treated like an adult.
I think she’s probably acting like a teenager because she’s being treated like one.

However, there was a plan in place for her to start paying after 6 months and she needs to follow through with it.

Who builds an entire business in their basement!
I think that’s mad and she doesn’t even realise how fortunate she is.
You’ve both been more than fair.

If it was me I’d be putting my foot down and telling her that she needs to start paying.
I think it would be good if she goes running back to her mum because then she might realise how good she has got it.

Unfortunately, though this isn’t your issue to deal with, its DH’s and if DH isn’t going to give her any consequences then nothing is going to change.

I agree with @Velvian there is obviously a lot of things going on and she’s obviously got some trauma from childhood.

Her dad still needs to have set boundaries in place though because a child like this can easily go off the rails.
Maybe some therapy sessions would help her deal with these issues better.

A 10pm curfew and no use of the heating during the day when running a business is far too restrictive for any adult.

One of the main issues you have with her is about her financial contribution.

The arrangement you have at the moment is too informal and not making her take responsibility. Has the £100 per week been broken down and what it covers explained? .

It actually sounds like she is living beyond her means and could be getting into debt. The lifestyle she leads with holidays, cars, packages etc. is extravagant for a young person who has just started a business.

What you and her father probably need to do is have a structured conversation with her about finances for the salon in addition her contribution to the house, and put it in a spreadsheet.

Rent- Could you agree a fair amount for room and heating only, rather than bed and board? ( Say £75 per week) Then her buy her own groceries or contribute an amount to weekly shop separately ( say £25 per week) ?

After that you can move on to the business. It could be worth separately charging for the use of the salon space, so she knows if her business is actually turning a profit. ( keep it by for her so that she has some start up money for her own premises) You could also calculate electricity usage during the day and add it to this.

She might even then decide it’s no longer worth hairdressing in the basement, and move her business elsewhere.

“DH is being a spineless twat”!

You’re unreasonable for this alone, and incredible rude!

Your SD is 21 and you’re acting as if you’re role in her life as parents is done. No free food, shelter or warmth! And to say she ‘only’ contributes £450 a month and you expect her to pay for her own food, additional running costs and invite clients into a cold basement.

When you’re own children grow up and ask for the basics like food and shelter aged 21 it’ll be you that becomes the spineless twat and you’ll maybe understand where her Dad is coming from.

Not quite sure why everyone is wanging on about OP forcing people to sit in a cold salon. If the salon needs to be warm, SD needs to pay for the additional heating. Which she is presently not doing. It's SDs fault the salon might be cold, no-one else's.

She is 21, tell your DH to sort it out or move out with her.

I have a couple of questions:

Was the divorce in the UAE? Did he get full custody because that's where the divorce was? Did the mum really not want to look after her kids? Just wondering as it's sadly all too common for women to lose custody of their children in the Middle East. There can be a long, bitter fight but if the man has decided he'll have the kids then khallas, no custody for the mum and massive trauma all round. My friend lost her son AND the husband accused her of a "crime*" so she would also get deported. Then he carried on with his busy job and the kid ended up being looked after up by the maid (he was a British national, just used the rules to benefit himself and ruin my friend's life for having the temerity to want a divorce). That kind of messy divorce can lead to all sorts of trauma for the children. If she's running back to her mum there's obviously some sort of relationship there.

The studio - it sounds more like a bedroom with a workstation attached... Does it have its own separate entrance, en suite facilities, kitchen area, salon area? Because if it was actually a studio flat with a salon attached she'd be able to come and go as she pleases without using your kitchen and TV late at night.

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*the crime was working without his permission, despite the fact she'd been working as a teacher throughout her whole marriage... I get the screaming rage just thinking about it and the years of absolute misery that man has caused her.

"And to say she ‘only’ contributes £450 a month and you expect her to pay for her own food, additional running costs and invite clients into a cold basement."

She doesn't contribute. She's supposed to pay £100 per week and doesn't!

£100 per week for premises for a hairdressing salon is an absolute bargain, let alone the fact that this includes all her heating costs and food and board.

You are being really unreasonable regarding the heating and curfew. Yes she needs to pay, but for £400 a month you need to compromise more.

@StrawberryAnnie It actually sounds like she is living beyond her means and could be getting into debt. The lifestyle she leads with holidays, cars, packages etc. is extravagant for a young person who has just started a business.

I don't think this sounds that extravagant, actually! She's definitely not slumming it, but she's not exactly splashing out the cash either. It just sounds like she's spending a bit unwisely, like any young person who's just started earning.

A holiday with Easyjet/Ryanair/even BA can be £100+ or even under that, if booked in advance. Not exactly something you go into debt for. I went on quite a few holidays with my friends/boyfriend when I first started work.

She has 1 car, which is quite normal for a young person. We don't know if it's a Toyota or a Porsche. In some areas of the UK, you need a car to get around anyway.

Online shopping can probably be cut down on. That said, online shopping is usually a lot cheaper than shopping in person. Plus, many young people (myself included) order a boatload to try on at home and then return at least half of it.

She should pay rent or move out, I agree. I think rent is another matter that's separate from her social life / lifestyle – most young people spend a bit frivolously the first year they start working.

Ah OP, try reposting this with her as your DD, not SD, and you'll get much more helpful responses.

Salons need to be warm. YOU might not think the heating is needed, but if she's got women with wet hair sitting waiting to be cut, or older ladies who feel the cold very easily or people like me who have raynauds and once we get cold take hours to warm up.

I wouldn't pay heating for my business either if the landlord refused to let me put it on until an hour before I close the premises.

The arrangement isn't working. Neither of you are happy so it's best that she moves premises and rents a place with her boyfriend, and maybe in the process gain a bit of maturity and understanding about the cost of living.