Is it ever OK to say "pull yourself together" these days?

[Spacecrafty]

My DH struggles with his MH. I think. He doesn't get any help or have a diagnosis- but he has times of anxiety for sure. Sometimes when I'm knee deep in nappies and trying to cook dinner and I've just done a full day's work and I see him staring at the floor all vacant or he says he can't "cope with bedtime tonight" or he just goes mute for a day at the weekend....I just think "bloody pull yourself together man"

My mum was very harsh with me growing up. If I was upset or ill she'd always tell me to pull myself together and get on with it. I have the same instinct, the same desire to tell him to snap out of it and give me a hand.... but I guess in this more enlightened age about mental health - it's a totally unreasonable and unkind response isn't it? It's v hard to remain empathetic at all times.

What do people think?

If someone has been to their doctor and received a genuine diagnosis and treatment plan, I am more than willing to help and support them on their road to recovery.

However I don't have much patience for people who whinge and moan but refuse to do anything to help themselves. You're the only one responsible for your MH and I say that as someone who's been on various anti-depressants and in therapy.

I feel the same when someone has a cold or a headache but refuses to take a painkiller. If you've taken all the medication you can and still feel shit then of course I'll look after you, but if you haven't even bothered to take some paracetamol but are just moping around in your dressing gown, you're not going to get any sympathy from me.

I would expect someone who was suffering physically to get as much help from their doctor as possible, yes.

Why wouldn't you expect that?

I have very little patience for people who just sit and complain about the same thing constantly without accessing help.

@coffeecupsandwaxmelts

Expecting someone to seek help and instructing them to pull themselves together is not the same thing

However mental Iill health in itself is a barrier to seeking help.

So it's not as simple as you being cross or impatient with them.

@Lentilweaver

Mental health is more difficult to 'fix' than physical Ill health.

It's easier to seek support if it's physical. It's easier to be empathised with if it's physical. People don't get angry with you if they can see your illness. It's easier to get a diagnosis.

And people don't tell you to pull yourself together. Like that's some kind of miracle cure.

I have experience of a family member with depression. Eventually even the most patient care giver burns out. However hard it may be, it is up to the sufferer to make some effort.

OP is likely to burn out with all this caregiving for her DH, and then where will her DC be? You can't set yourself on fire to help someone else.

Most women with young DC don't have the luxury of checking out. I know I didn't, even when I had severe PPD.

I never said it was simple.

And I've had poor MH in the past so I know the struggles - but that doesn't excuse you from being responsible.

Nobody else can fix you. You have to fix you.

Not all physical illnesses are visible so that doesn't really work.

There are at least 4 threads at the moment where depressed DH's won't help with children, won't do housework, won't work, and won't get treatment because they can't be bothered. Meanwhile, women are expected to work, look after the kids, clean the house, and make time to take their DH's to the GP, while also being kind and loving. Please! I would jolly well say "Pull yourself together" and if he didn't, I would leave.

There isn't stigma about mental health any more. If anything, every single thing appears to be about mental health.

What a shame that in these more enlightened times, men don’t ask themselves ‘is it ok for me to opt out of parenting my own children and to treat my wife like a skivvy?’

If he is not seeking diagnosis or working on coping mechanisms and addressing his issues then that is what he needs to do - that would be him pulling himself together- and unfortunately as with .ost illnesses a lot of recovery does require active engagement from the patient whether it is physical or mental illnesses. He isn't addressing it and that not only impacts him but those around him.

@Lentilweaver Same!

I think that this sounds a very sensible empathetic (but non martyred) approach.

My DM has suffered with her MH all her life - severe post-partum psychosis, periods of moderate to severe clinical depression. She does not always find life easy (understatement) but equally recognises the importance of seeking treatment when appropriate and does not use MH as a get out of jail free card.

I do think it is important to recognise that when someone is really struggling in critical periods, they genuinely can't see the wood for the trees, but equally they need to be encouraged to take 'baby steps' when appropriate. Our family often worry that we are getting the balance wrong between taking on the full load for a period of time, and encouraging DM to do things herself. There are times to support and times to encourage and times to insist that a visit to the doctor has got to happen. It's recognising which times are which, and what approach is appropriate at particular times, that can be really hard.

Equally though I do also agree with those who have commented that natural, normal human emotions (worry, panic, anxiety) have been pathologised to a certain extent and that we have perhaps swung from never talking about mental health to going on about it a bit too much and thus encouraging people to use is as an excuse Hence the various self-diagnosed people who won't do anything about it but are happy to use 'anxiety' as an opt out clause.

Yes, 'Feel the fear and do it anyway' is a great book that came out in the 80s. People look at others doing stuff and think it is easy for them, it isn't. They have the same fear/anxiety but know that overcoming that is the way to feel good about themselves.

I have several long term health conditions and have been clinically depressed diagnosed since my teens but I often tell myself to pull my socks up.

Sometimes it's needed. It's very much a case by case and situation appropriately but it sounds to me as though your husband needs a bit of a leg up and in this case I think I'd say it to him.

Good luck.

While I appreciate your frustration and the unfairness of the situation telling him to pull himself together wont help and probably will add to his self narrative.

But, and it is a huge big but - if he wants your continued support he has to engage with support - doctor, talking therapy, well being actions exercise, medication etc. You have not the ability to cure or overcome his illness - only he can and if he doesn't engage then sadly you need to decide what your limit is.

Mental health issues are horrendous to those with them and those who support them. After having to section my exdh four times, and spending years juggling full time work, pretty much full time children and listening to everyone tell me how brave he was admitting MH issues (while refusing to actually engage in any treatments) I eventually had to step away for my own and our children's mental health - I hope your DH engages as with help it is manageable.

I engaged with a local support groups for families with those with MH issues and I found it so helpful to actually feel I was not alone. It also gave me the strength to set my boundaries. It might an idea for yourself?

“Pull yourself together” is not helpful in any way, it’s not useful advice, nor reassuring. It’s almost designed to make people feel worse / panic more.
My dh gets overwhelmed by work issues. I am sympathetic but if we’re busy with urgent family stuff then I’ll say - take some deep breaths and just do x (a small first step task). In half an hour /an hour we can sit down to rest or you can go back to your spreadsheet if you still need to.

I agree. I do have depression and am seeing someone about it, and I’m working through it. But have seen a woman in the clinic I go to, so depressed that she was sitting in a chair, head bowed and seemed almost catatonic. Some time later I mentioned this woman to my psychiatrist and said it looked to me that she was very medicated. He said that really bad depression can do that to some people. The point is it can get that bad.

It's easier to seek support if it's physical. It's easier to be empathised with if it's physical. People don't get angry with you if they can see your illness.

Of course people who are caring for others with physical illnesses get angry at being put in the role of carer and having to shoulder responsibilities.

Last weekend I went for a walk with a man whose wife was diagnosed with terminal cancer in 2011. They have been living with cancer ever since. Much of her waking life revolves around her health and medication and diet and getting on the latest drug trial. He's living with cancer because his life and expectations have been massively limited by her illness. Her needs always outweigh his because she has cancer. It's only since he joined a carers support group that he's realised that it's perfectly normal to feel resentment when your life is shaped by another's needs.

Nobody's saying that genuine depression and MH conditions aren't horrific.

But that doesn't change the fact that other people can't be responsible for holding you up forever - at some point you have to either take responsibility for yourself or allow external services to help you.

You can't just expect to say "oh, I can't cope with x" and that's that - if you genuinely can't cope then you need to be open to getting help. But if you're not open to getting help because the reality is you can't be arsed, then yes, you do need to get a grip.

I overheard my DH telling his younger employee that he didn’t have time to be depressed. Although he was joking, there is some truth in the statement. Succumbing to mental health issues like depression or anxiety is a luxury that most people can’t afford. Not that people won’t suffer with the illnesses but unless you have a partner who is prepared to pick up all the slack and be treated as an emotional skip most of us have to have an internal voice telling us to pull ourselves together because there is no other option.

The problem is that genuine sufferers with debilitating mental health issues are lumped together with people who claim “anxiety” for anything even slightly difficult and it’s these people who should be told to “pull it together” rather than the former.

Only took three replies for the dickheads to arrive.

In answer to the OP: sometimes. Depends how serious you think his problems are.

Equally though I do also agree with those who have commented that natural, normal human emotions (worry, panic, anxiety) have been pathologised to a certain extent and that we have perhaps swung from never talking about mental health to going on about it a bit too much and thus encouraging people to use is as an excuse Hence the various self-diagnosed people who won't do anything about it but are happy to use 'anxiety' as an opt out clause.
Absolutely this! I really have no time for anyone with self-diagnosed anxiety. You don't have bloody anxiety.....you're just a bit nervous, it's a perfectly normal human emotion that isn't a get out clause for pulling your weight in life.
It's funny with people like this, if you don't feed them with attention or lower your expectations they do soon 'pull themselves together'.

I agree too about the pathologisation of natural human emotions like being nervous or a bit low. We can't be consciously happy all the time and if you want to enjoy highs of emotion you will naturally have other days that are depressing and dull. Nerves can be a good thing as you raise your adrenalin to handle big or difficult occasions. They are the fuel that enables performance and satisfaction.

I got divorced when my kids were 7 and 5 - I was betrayed and devastated, hurt so deeply. I had one day off and 5 nights out of 7 I got my kids up and ready for school and did the bedtime routine on my own. Because they needed me and were dependent on me. I didn't have the luxury of not being up to it and I suspect that the pressure and routine of caring for others was a key ingredient to my survival. Doing nothing when you feel rough is tempting but can prolong the bad feelings.

5 features of well-being: stay active, take notice, connect, keep learning and give. Sometimes helping someone else is the route to feeling better. But yeah it's easy to opt out and get someone else to do it.

This thread suggests otherwise.

That mental health is more difficult to fix (seriously, it’s not - many physical illnesses are long-term debilitating and even life-limiting), that it’s easier to seek support, that it’s easier to be empathised with, and that people don’t get angry with you.

Many different illnesses take their toll on, not only the sufferer, but their carer and other family members. If the person with the illness isn’t doing anything about it and instead just opts out, as in the OP’s DH, that leads to unhealthy resentment.

Absolutely this! I really have no time for anyone with self-diagnosed anxiety.

There is a difference between people suffering normal anxiety and those with clinical symptoms; but some people with clinical symptoms don’t get as far as the CMHT, like some men, who feel the stigma of MH problems and won’t even go to the GP, never mind the CMHT. Their MH problems still exist!