To ask what stops you voting for Labour?

[Winniethepoohandtiggertoo]

No agenda I’m just interested as Kier is on LBC this morning…

For me it’s the TWAW magical thinking, and not being convinced they would prioritise average earners, which I want to happen.

I actually like Rishi Sunak

He's turned out to be marginally better than what I thought he was going to be. I'm not sure it's enough for a Tory vote, time will tell. I definitely wouldn't be voting for Keir "doesn't know what a woman is" Starmer, either way. Even if he turned round today and said he'd got it all wrong. He's proven he's not to be trusted.

There's also the fact that most people don't benefit financially from Tory rule and aren't swimming in accumulated wealth. Hobbi clearly doesn't know how the typical Sun reader votes and would probably be shocked by the voting pattern among many, many very deprived areas. What's interesting is how politically successful they are historically, given how few people actually do benefit.

Whatever the reason for voting Tory, it is quite rarely because you're minted and it's going to fill your coffers even more.

Rishi is the least bad of the bunch since Cameron left, but he still reminds me of a grinning Head Boy who still can’t believe he gets to walk around with his shiny badge on, yet is desperate to prove he’s still ‘keeping it real’ and not about to make us all scrub the locker room. Although I suspect he would like us to.

I think Rishi is such a wonderful PM. He's exactly what Britain needs right now.

I'm very aware of how people vote. I also clearly originally said 'perceived' financial self-interest. The merging of UKIP with the Tories and the divisive Brexit process has changed the political landscape.

Keir stamer. I'll vote for Labour when they have a leader that isn't a Zionist

Can’t win can they ? 😉Full of anti semites or zionists. Which is it.

If you ask these people why they vote Tory, they won't say it's because they think it'll make them richer. Which is itself rather interesting, if you're prepared to listen.

I'd give you an idea of what they would say, but you've spent close to 600 posts ignoring everything everyone has been saying and plastering your own strawman on to them instead...so why would you listen this time?

@ReneBumsWombats

I think I understand what you are misinterpreting from my posts. If it's my fault, I apologise. I never said the only reason not to vote Labour was financial self-interest, nor is that the only reason to vote Tory. My very first point was stating that if you posted in response to the OP stating that you thought you were taxed to highly, you had a problem with the welfare state and wanted to preserve the various advantages of private education then your answer to OP could be summed up as 'I don't vote Labour because I'm a Tory'. I also said that tacking something about women's rights on the end was disingenuous. If you are not voting Labour because you hold traditional Tory values, you are a Conservative. I am yet to be convinced that anyone's rights are enhanced by voting Tory, but no one has addressed that, preferring to accuse me of being anti-democratic.

Their eagerness to destroy women's right and protections and their willingness to dismantle child protection systems

So glad you brought that second point into it, WichBitch
Women (yes, the natural born ones) are at least broadly capable of speaking up for themselves in a credible manner ... innocent children not so much

If you are not voting Labour because you hold traditional Tory values, you are a Conservative.

Well yes, obviously! Which is why it's so interesting that so many people who don't hold traditional Tory values are still not voting Labour!

And if you want to know some of the reasons other than "because I'm Tory", you could try...listening? It's nearly 600 posts in. Things have been said!

Puzzledandpissedoff· Today 10:45
Their eagerness to destroy women's right and protections and their willingness to dismantle child protection systems

So glad you brought that second point into it, WichBitch

Women (yes, the natural born ones) are at least broadly capable of speaking up for themselves in a credible manner ... innocent children not so much

Yes, little girls can no longer go to girl guides among girls, and even their leader might be a male who thinks he is a woman girl guide leader. Little girls may but go to the lavatory in peace and dignity away from males. Little girls may not be able to go on away trips and sleep in dormitories with only girls. A little girl was sexually assaulted in a women’s lavatory in a supermarket by a male who says he is a woman. Teenage girls can’t go to Primark without getting photographed by men in the changing rooms.

Girls are also being disproportionately affected by ROGD, being ‘affirmed’ by their schools and set on very dangerous and harmful pathways.

People are trying to change this, but the situation will only get worse and worse if/when Labour bring in self-ID.
Please help to erect a mitigating barrier
www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4722618-petition-to-update-the-equality-act-thread-2

I am yet to be convinced that anyone's rights are enhanced by voting Tory, but no one has addressed that, preferring to accuse me of being anti-democratic

the only person who has said that is me….but you’ve mentioned it in almost every post following my ‘accusation’

I understand that. I also clearly pointed out that I'm aware that traditional Labour voters have changed their habits when Brexit became the starting point for one's political allegiance. I don't personally believe that the only other issue I've seen mentioned, that of gender and trans women, will be better addressed under Tory rule, or that women's rights in general won't be overall worse.

Given that we are essentially a two party state that's pretty much the option of chosing to vote one way or not. Its naive to think otherwise.

There are many parts of the country where this isn't true at all - where Labour and /or Conservatives aren't the first and/or second party.

In my area it is a two horse race usually - but I increasing feel what ever government in Westminster a semi competent Tory MP may well benefit my area - it would get rid of a lackluster Labour incumbent and would actually put the area on the radar of those two parties as a marginal rather than getting ignored as a Labour stronghold despite the very narrow margin of victory here last time.

Given my children ages and aspirations for university education though we'd be better of financially with a continuation of Labour Welsh government despite my severe reservations about their performance. I also benefit from the free prescriptions having asthma and while our current circumstances make that less important I have experience of struggling to afford fill prescriptions in England.

Locally I expect we'd be better of with the local party getting in at council level.

Doesn't mean everyone else who votes in the area will agree with me - but I do think I should be someone who the two main parties are targeting and at minute both look like piss poor choices so it will have to come down to local candidates - which could go either way.

Refusal to protect (or recognise) womens rights.
Lack of support for business (or recognition that a healthy business environment equates to more spending power.)
Inability to cost lofty spending plans.
Concerns about elements of anti semetic views.
I could go on but would be here for a long time and have work to do.

Oh good, you've finally acknowledged the gender ideology issue and Brexit. That's a start. Already we have two reasons that aren't actually related to "being Tory".

What about...everything else? It's all there if you look.

My hesitancy is the TWAW stance.

But also I will be voting for whichever candidate is most likely to get this Tory govt out at the next election as they have been horrifyingly corrupt

@ReneBumsWombats

I haven't seen any reasons other than TWANW, traditional Tory policies (lies about benefit claimants, low taxes etc) and references to why 'poorer' folk are voting Tory - and that is unequivocally Brexit/immigration related. I've seen some class based derision of Angela Raynor and references to Jeremy Corbyn, but he isn't a Labour MP so I fail to see the relevance of those. What have I missed?

TWAW. I'm a single issue voter at the moment. If we lose the definition of woman it could take decades to sort out.

Antisemitism, for a start...

That was the same with Labour in opposition in the 90s, the Tories? Full of sleaze, expense scandals, economic incompetence (sound familiar?)
Blair spoke in sound bites, very limited on policy.

Because as Michael Howard pointed out recently and Jeremy Hunt agreed, if Labour announce policy now, the Tories will take the ones they like/popular, as they have done already with windfall taxes and rumoured to be the closure of the Nom Dom loop hole.

On "can't manage themselves" that applies to thee current Govt and Sunak has been in office for a few months now and has seen no bounce in the polls.

However i do agree the polls will narrow but i think after 13 years of austerity and the collapse of the NHS, i think the Tories will lose comprehensively.

@ReneBumsWombats
My understanding was that the EHRC had said labour had successfully introduced reforms to deal with that. I do get criticism from labour stalwarts when I defend Israel's right to exist and state that I believe a democratic presence in the Middle East is essential. I suppose it's like the trans issue for me and due to my old age I have experienced the rantings of many, many more openly bigoted Tories. First past the post is really showing it's failings here. Apologies if I seemed to be insulting people, it's not my intent. I was genuinely trying to answer OP.

Starmer.

On a seperate note - people have long memories and are still angry at Labour for the tuition fee withdrawal and the illegal Iraq war. They’re an adults now who lost their parents in that war and they suffer every day. That’s a direct result of Blair’s Labour. I don’t blame them for being angry. The fact he never faced jail is a travesty

Rishi has much more charisma than Blair. It's unfair to compare the two.