Is threatening illegal immigrants going to stop them coming?

[LadyGAgain]

Channel migrants face lifetime ban on returning to UK www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64848101

I read this with horror. I know we are a tiny island with limited resources but this legislation seems callous and cruel. These people are risking their very existence getting on these small boats and to then be locked up and shipped off again to who knows where. Plus the cost to us as tax payers. AIBU to suggest that I don't have a solution but this one seems extreme.

The financial crisis in 2007/8 may have occured under Blair and Brown but it wasn't started by them. It was a global event and was kicked off by the subprime mortgage crisis in the US.

Late 2008 was over 14 years ago - nearly a decade and a half. You can't pin this on Labour now. Who nearly crashed the economy last year?

So how come the UK had to leave the EU to mismanage immigration ? France, Spain and Italy all being EU members.

Who nearly crashed the economy last year?

A cabal of leftie economists ?
Sarge ?
Rosemary ?
Penry, the mild mannered janitor ?

Can't possibly have been the Tory fucking government with 12 years in power behind them, can it ?

Just saw this is the Daily Mail:

"The way immigrants are pouring in from every port of this country is becoming an outrage. I intend to enforce the law to the fullest."
In these words, Mr Herbert Metcalde, the Old Street Magistrate yesterday referred to the number of aliens entering this country through the 'back door' -- a problem to which The Daily Mail has repeatedly pointed."

P.S the immigrants referred to here were Jewish people and people fleeing Nazi Germany. Plus ça change,

I think it was Corbyn's fault?

Well, the Daily Mail did support Hitler. Quite openly. Even now, there are articles ready to go about how Putin is really the man we need to run the UK (which will surprise a lot of Tories who thought he already was).

"Hurrah for the blackshirts" as the Mail said.

Although I imagine there will be some bleeding heart liberal along to point out we've all dabbled in supporting fascist dictators in our time.

I think you're missing the context of that statement, which was in response to 'They're too much for us to cope with, let France deal with them' - ignoring the fact that France's issues are many magnitudes bigger than the numbers we're getting in small boats.

Whose magic money tree? It seems to be the Tories who found an entire orchard when they wanted to give money to their mates.

We seem unable to train enough doctors and dentists to meet our needs, importing them seems eminently sensible.

Btw, I like your work @LakieLady. Everything you say is spot on.

IClaudine - Nobody is saying that we don't need immigration, but it needs to be controlled, you can't just have unprecedented numbers of people coming here We pay France over 50 million a year to help them to control their borders and stop the boat crossings, but France don't want them there so they just turn a blind eye.

IClaudine

Yes many of us are in difficulty here. But if the boats stopped coming tomorrow. If we banned all immigration from tomorrow, that would change nothing for ordinary people. In fact it would make things worse as we need immigration. W

Nearly 13 years of Tory mismanagement. Austerity. Greed and corruption. That is why so many people are struggling.

I don’t want to ban immigration but it has to be controlled. If we are having difficulty supporting ourselves how are we supposed to support others well? Or do we take them in and have them struggle later too?

And every government, no matter what party, is out to see themselves right. They are all the same under different names. The Tories may be all about greed but everyone else was too.

Before anyone starts talking about magic money trees , if I could bring up the magic money tree that was Brexit- 440 billion so far spent on this pile of horse manure plus the hit to the economy with very little tangible benefit apart from appeasing a certain section of voters- many of whom had no iota of the effect on the overall economy. This is more than all the money we've paid in during nearly 50 years. Then we have various magic money trees related to covid- no due diligence it seems if it came to bunging donors or mates of donors. I don't want to hear a single Tory inclined voter/mumsnetter daring to go on about labour and magic money trees- because the Tory's it seems have orchards full of them- but only when it benefits them or their mates or donors.

Wasn't it Sue Grey?

My husband and I own a very successful company and lots of property. We are very comfortable financially and wanted to invite his mum for a short holiday so she can see where we live and spoil her for a little while. We proved numerous times that we have more than enough financial means to support her here, she also showed them her healthy bank accounts but her visa was refused THREE times. Apply for a visa in this county? Are you serious?

It is to do with our being an island. The simple fact is that no-one can reach us without going through other countries first, therefore your point about people having passed through other safe countries first is a non-point; if that was the criterion, we would be saying that the UK never takes any refugees at all, which would be ridiculous.

Yes, other countries are larger and have taken larger proportions of refugees and immigrants. Our population has increased partly because we have done very nicely indeed out of our colonial past and subsequently rightly recognised an obligation to citizens of colonial countries. It's not good enough just to talk about population increase without analysing how and why that has happened - including looking at those areas where we are clearly underpopulated, i.e. people of working age.

Did you DIY the visa or did you use an immigration solicitor? The process is so labyrinthine you may have been applying for the visa all wrong.

And it's posts like this which just show that the poster concerned has swallowed the Right wing version of the facts which bear little relationship to reality. If the UK is such a nirvana, how come so many people actually prefer to apply to other countries? Have you actually experienced the health systems of other countries in Europe? I have to break it to you that the NHS really isn't that great in comparison. Likewise our welfare system. Sure, some people opt for the UK just because they speak English or have friends or relatives here, but is that so terrible? If something awful were to happen here so that you had to flee for your life, would you want to stay in Europe or would you be aiming to get to somewhere like the US or Oz where there would be no language barrier?

If you knew anything about the criteria for establishing an asylum claim, you wouldn't make that claim about millions and millions of people qualifying for asylum here.

We have serious shortages of workers in a number of fields, including care, health, hospitality, teaching, the prison and probation services and many others. The situation has become considerably worse post Brexit. To say we have no space in those circumstances is just absurd. Not only do we desperately need immigration to fill all those vacancies, we need all the tax and spending leading to economic growth that the people concerned would bring to us.

This

Immigrants (not just refugees) will always be attracted to the UK because of the welfare state, NHS and economic opportunities

I wouldn't worry. Soon the message that none of it works willl get out properly.

Also, no recourse to public funds is a case for many

With the best will in the world we cannot relocate the entire 3rd world into the UK.

Where on earth has anyone ever advocated this? It is this sort of ridiculous exaggeration which completely undermines any sort of credibility on the part of those supporting these policies.

Maybe getting in trouble in Britain VS staying in whatever dire circumstance you're escaping or whatever dream you're chasing. Hmm I wonder 🤔

Immoral, short sighted, victim blaming, populist shite implemented by arseholes to please arseholes

This. And a little bird tells me that the Immigration Appeals Tribunal has available judges twiddling their fingers because, despite the backlog, appeals aren't being listed. Meanwhile the appellants have to be maintained in this country and aren't allowed to work.

Yes, it is. Those families presumably have, at the very least, right to remain if not citizenship so they are rooted here.

If we made established roots the criterion, most of the population would have to be deported as most of us have immigrant ancestors at various points in the family tree. Mind you, at least we'd be chucking Johnson and his objectionable family out.

We have serious shortages of workers in a number of fields, including care, health, hospitality, teaching, the prison and probation services and many others. The situation has become considerably worse post Brexit. To say we have no space in those circumstances is just absurd. Not only do we desperately need immigration to fill all those vacancies, we need all the tax and spending leading to economic growth that the people concerned would bring to us.

But if our population were to stabilise or decrease, we would not need more and more healthcare, hospitality, prison guards, teachers and so on. The shortages are because we already have more people living here than we have supply of these services. Bringing in millions more then drives up the demand for these services and everything else even more. Can you not see it’s an never ending spiral of bring in more people to meet demand, which then increases demand in other areas, so we bring in more people for those areas, which then…

This cycle of ever meeting increasing demand has nothing to do with actual room/over population versus the landmass. The more people that live here, the more health workers (and so on) we will need and when we fill those shortages and those people will need more bin men, construction workers to build houses and roads, and teachers for their kids..which in turn creates more demand for what they do…and it never ends.

Youre stuck in the old grow or die mentality, we have to learn how to right size people vs professions and resources without relying on constant population imports to do it.

These people are risking their very existence getting on these small boats

It's actually quite safe taking a small boat across the channel, I do it regularly.

Occasionally because the customers are very stupid and the smugglers are very nasty, they take a risk that no one with seamanship skills would take and they drown.

There was a major story last year about a middle Eastern couple, just married, expensive looking wedding photos circulated, sadly the woman drowns during their expensive attempt at illegal economic relocation avoiding legal ports of entry. The middle east is massive, surely this well off looking couple could have found somewhere nice to live? Nope, they fancied London.

Another family made the news, the dad sold everything and dragged his wife, teenagers and young kid across Europe, there being no where else in the whole world he could continue to bring up his three kids apparently and certainly not in the place where they worked and went to school. Only England. Sadly he got fed up of waiting for a calm sea and took his family all out in dangerous conditions to their death. He's a murderer, not an asylum seeker.

Whilst you are correct, you need to remember that our entire system of government is built upon ever expanding needs. Any anything which threatens that also threatens the wealth of the people who pay the politicians to "run" the country.