Is threatening illegal immigrants going to stop them coming?

[LadyGAgain]

Channel migrants face lifetime ban on returning to UK www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64848101

I read this with horror. I know we are a tiny island with limited resources but this legislation seems callous and cruel. These people are risking their very existence getting on these small boats and to then be locked up and shipped off again to who knows where. Plus the cost to us as tax payers. AIBU to suggest that I don't have a solution but this one seems extreme.

I assume all the people creaming themselves over this thought the Rwanda scheme was a great idea, and since its announcement haven't actually checked how many people it's been used for.

What's wrong with a policy of offering safe passage of offering safe passage plus an efficient asylum processing system?

The government knows full well that there are thousands of asylum seekers stuck with not being allowed to work for years on end whilst their claims are processed. Given that the majority will be given asylum, that is a ridiculous waste. But they would rather waste millions on the ridiculous Rwanda scheme that put some investment into a sensible processing system combined with allowing asylum seekers to work.

Yeah, think you both might want to read into it a bit more @Pacificisolated @lollipoprainbow
amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/02/australias-offshore-asylum-centres-have-been-a-cruel-disaster-they-must-not-be-replicated-by-the-uk

“First, the model does not work. When Australia reintroduced offshore processing in 2012, it was intended to be a “circuit breaker” to deter increasing numbers of asylum seekers coming by boat. But the opposite happened: more people arrived in the first 10 months of the policy than at any other time in Australian history. Within three months, the forecasted capacity of the offshore detention centres had been exceeded, meaning the majority of those who came would never be sent offshore.”

”Of the 3,127 people sent to PNG and Nauru, about 360 remain in limbo – even though most of them have officially been recognised as refugees. Some have been languishing there for as long as seven years. More than a thousand others were medically evacuated back to Australia on account of critical health concerns that could not be treated offshore. The Australian government refuses to allow any offshore refugee to settle permanently in Australia, and neither Nauru nor PNG offers long-term options, which means Australia needs other countries to come to the rescue.”

“Third, people held offshore have been subjected to cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment – even torture”

”Finally, offshore processing costs Australian taxpayers more than 50 times as much as letting asylum seekers live in the community. For a time, this expenditure rose at a rate of 129% annually. The government has spent A$7.6bn to keep 3,000 people confined in abysmal conditions – a costly warning to others who might dare to seek Australia’s sanctuary.”

Some spent most of their lives working. Many did not, some have spent as long retired as they did working, some didn't work at all. Regardless, as a generation they have paid an inadequate amount of tax and NI to future proof their final years and now expect the generation they constantly berate to fund them.

Considering they had 60+ years of unprecedented growth, peace, prosperity and opportunity and chose to use to create levels of inequality that would make even the Victorian's wince I can't say I've got much sympathy for them.

Maybe they could just stop the subscription to the daily mail and the daily full-english breakfast and they'd be able to afford a great care home 😉.

So many mugs on this thread. How many times are you going to let the tories pretend they're tackling immigration problems, with zero actual results, and still buy into their rhetoric?
They and their cronies are making millions out of the current shambles through the contracted out accommodation and other services, they don't want to stop it.
I almost can't get my head around how dumb and gullible some people are.

This is laughable- UK doesn't look after its own. And look at the patterns of migration from the UK out over history. We've a huge trend of that because UK doesn't look after its own. If you need a historic example look at how many people in Northern Ireland have migrated, and sure look at how many people in USA for example have Irish roots because people left Northern Ireland during famine and times of hardship. We have shortages of labourers in some sectors. Migrants pay more into our economy in terms of tax then they take. And the home office are the ones stopping people from working and paying tax.

Lavender14 - The people coming over in the boats, and yes some of them are economic migrants, have already reached a safe country and have travelled through many safe countries to get to Calais.

Why should we be immune from helping with refugees just because we're an island? Those safe countries already take many more refugees than we do.

You do know that the majority of people who apply for asylum here have their claims accepted, don't you?

They could apply in their own country then get the wizzair flight once they are given asylum.

The point is there’s no legal route to apply from their own country in the vast majority of cases. If there was we could have a properly administered process of asylum seeking, we could plan for people granted asylum and ensure there were facilities for them. Instead we wait until they’re washed up on our shores - dead or alive - and deal with the fall out.

They could get on a. Wizzair plane and apply at customs but of course won’t get in unless entitled. They could apply in their own country then get the wizzair flight once they are given asylum.

😂

Are you actually serious? Or is this a parody post?

It is not possible to claim asylum from outside the UK.

It is not possible to legally travel to the UK with the purpose of claiming asylum.

Rosula - It's nothing to do with us being an island. It's to do with the size of this country. I have already said Germany is 3.5 times larger and France 1.5 times larger than us yet in the last 32 years our population has increased more.

No, the men can go through the grinder, get on the plane, or take the shot too.

Isn't it odd how angry people get when you start to speak about a demographic they identify with in the same way many on this thread, and others like it, speak about refugees?

Not so nice when the tables are turned is it?

No it won't.

Allowing people to make asylum claims from the British embassy/consulate wherever they are might reduce numbers.

The right wing media have really succeeded in getting people in this country to put their brains in a drawer and react to biased reporting as a way of distracting us from the mess the government has made. The pressure on the NHS isn't caused by immigrants. It's caused by over a decade of chronic underfunding. And people who have 5 kids.

Some spent most of their lives working. Many did not, some have spent as long retired as they did working, some didn't work at all. Regardless, as a generation they have paid an inadequate amount of tax and NI to future proof their final years and now expect the generation they constantly berate to fund them.

you simply don't understand how the system was a) sold to people at the time of its creation or b) history

so there is zero point discussing it with you.

And "berate to fund them"??? The model is supposed to work like that. Just because your governments haven't kept up their end of the bargain, that is your 80 year old mum/granny's problem in what way?

People were not expected to also squirrel away money (that many didn't have anyway) for their pension. Cradle to Grave.

So anyway: as i asked the other poster. What is your plan for all these, what can we call them? "useless eaters"?

@Rosula
*Why should we be immune from helping with refugees just because we're an island? Those safe countries already take many more refugees than we do.

You do know that the majority of people who apply for asylum here have their claims accepted, don't you?*
Posts like this are so misleading and willfully naive.

Immigrants (not just refugees) will always be attracted to the UK because of the welfare state, NHS and economic opportunities. The world is a terribly unequal and cruel place where there are undoubtedly millions upon millions of people that would have their claims of asylum accepted should they get to the UK and lodge an application. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realise that we as a country don't have the ability to absorb that amount of people and give the population the quality of life that they are accustomed to it desire.

Mumsnet is a strange place as the very same people that are very pro accepting large numbers of refugees, also strongly support better provision for British citizens in terms of the welfare system and properly supporting our vulnerable, old, disabled etc. Do people not realise there is a limited pot and that accepting vulnerable people from other countries will inevitably dilute the support available to the current population? No, we can't just tax the rich more or stop tax evasion (if it was the easy it would have been done by now). There is no magic money tree. Sometimes you have to make a choice about where your limited resources go. If someone gains then someone loses out. You have to be pretty insulated from real life to not see this.

At least the government are finally doing something about them, about time in my opinion. I'm still not happy about my taxes paying for the flights to return them but needs must I guess

@Thebestwaytoscareatory
No, the men can go through the grinder, get on the plane, or take the shot too.

you realise i was talking about the pensioners that so many here are quick to point the finger at for "breaking the NHS/pensions"?
Or is that what you think of the people that built up this prosperous country in the 60s/70s/80s? the ones who were paying into a system, via tax and nI, that is supposed to look after them from the cradle to the grave?

There is more to that tragic story that what was printed.

These people (from Afghanistan, Iran and other countries) set off from Turkey, sailed around Greece (where they could have landed) and continued across the Ionian Sea (very rough at this time of year) towards Italy.
Q. If they were genuinely fleeing persecution why did they sidestep Greece?
A. Because it's easier to get into Italy.

Even the EU are fed up with the volume of immigration. They have offered Turkey 3 billion euros ($3.3 billion) to do more to stop migrants from attempting the perilous journey. The migrant crisis has divided the EU’s political leaders and threatened the bloc’s open-border policy.

France is half our population density

Let's look at how many countries Britain has invaded over the years. Then let's think about how those countries were affected and still are, due to empire building. The effects are still being felt today. We have a responsibility to help out as we are benefiting, even today, from our history.

I come from a country that was pillaged by the British, my father moved here as a child. He was a very high net earner when he retired and so am I. We haven't taken from the British we have added to society - some of you would send us away though.

Shame we couldn't send your armies away when they arrived.

www.indy100.com/amp/uk-great-britain-invasion-empire-war-conquest-globe-invaded-2017-7460711-2656341470

This spells it out ^

With the best will in the world we cannot relocate the entire 3rd world into the UK.
Increasing tax isn't the answer - Astra Zeneca is moving to Eire because the rate of Corporation Tax is more inviting. Hunt has refused to reduce that tax because to do so would require more borrowing.

I think people have forgotten that we are still paying off the costs of the Covid Pandemic which stood at an eyewatering £334 billion.

Give that non have ever been deported, no.

Anyone who thinks that the government is trying to stop them is in lala land. Every week there is another announcement of a solution just round the corner. While every day they escort more over. This has been the pattern for at least 10 years. The government obviously wants this.

Why? Well, that's where you can develop your own theories.

I don't like it but our local newspaper reported on it and there were hundreds of supportive comments. It's depressing but if they're doing it for popular support from a certain sector of society, it might indeed be a vote winner. We want nice immigrants to work in care homes and pick fruit please, not the dodgy ones on boats. Apparently.

I’m not saying that they aren’t trying to find an “easier” route into the EU and I’m not saying I think this form of migration is a good thing (I do believe there are plenty of economic migrants).

I’m saying that at no point should people be loading children onto barely seaworthy vessels and setting off. I’d be perfectly happy if every single people trafficker had their vessels burned on the shore.