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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is threatening illegal immigrants going to stop them coming?

1000 replies

LadyGAgain · 06/03/2023 07:19

Channel migrants face lifetime ban on returning to UK www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64848101

I read this with horror. I know we are a tiny island with limited resources but this legislation seems callous and cruel. These people are risking their very existence getting on these small boats and to then be locked up and shipped off again to who knows where. Plus the cost to us as tax payers. AIBU to suggest that I don't have a solution but this one seems extreme.

OP posts:
MarshaBradyo · 07/03/2023 13:32

lazycats · 07/03/2023 13:29

This scheme will fail and the tories will poll even worse. There's a reason Braverman's personal ratings are abysmal even though she talks directly to the base.

I don’t think that matters so much

I tried to find info for another thread and found this. I was surprised at numbers which were higher than expected

Two-thirds (68%) of Britons think that the UK should refuse to accept asylum applications from people who have entered the UK illegally and could reasonably have claimed asylum in another safe country.

The majority (61%) also support attempting to intercept migrant boats in the English Channel and turning them back towards France

Springchicken75 · 07/03/2023 13:32

lazycats · 07/03/2023 13:30

Do you know how many we've sent to Rwanda so far?

You're not going to like the answer.

It’s going through legal processes at the moment duh.

MarshaBradyo · 07/03/2023 13:33

..Her personal ratings that is. On it working voters will keep pushing until something does

lazycats · 07/03/2023 13:33

Springchicken75 · 07/03/2023 13:32

It’s going through legal processes at the moment duh.

It's going through the legal processes because the scheme was illegal and it's never going to happen even though they said it would.

Duh.

jgw1 · 07/03/2023 13:34

lazycats · 07/03/2023 13:29

This scheme will fail and the tories will poll even worse. There's a reason Braverman's personal ratings are abysmal even though she talks directly to the base.

I don't think Braverman or Sunak want the scheme to work, certainly it doesn't appear to be in their interests, it works much better for them to be able to blame a small number of migrants than take responsibilty themselves for the problems they have created in this country by their years of misgovernment.

Aaron95 · 07/03/2023 13:34

Springchicken75 · 07/03/2023 13:24

Most people 100% support the millions that have arrived from Ukraine, Afghanistan and Hong Kong. We need to care for these people first! Most are still living in B&Bs and we are beyond stretched in every area.

Immigration should be suspended until we are in a position to offer families a real chance of a new life and not one room where they rot for years. Criminal gangs from Eastern Europe are not ‘refugees’ but people traffickers and drug dealers. This country needs to stand up to the trafficking m, resettle the genuine refugees and pause ALL immigration until the situation is fully under control.

We already can offer them a new life. As soon as their asylum claim has been approved they can get jobs and begin to start those new lives. The only reason they are stuck in tiny cramped hotel rooms is because we don't allow people to work while their claims are being processed. That process needs to be sped up so it takes a few weeks not months and months.

Springchicken75 · 07/03/2023 13:35

Well my dear friend, it’s just about to become legal. So we will see. Labours plan is what? Fling open the doors - it’s a free for all. Great. Let’s see how that goes down !!

Springchicken75 · 07/03/2023 13:36

Aaron95 · 07/03/2023 13:34

We already can offer them a new life. As soon as their asylum claim has been approved they can get jobs and begin to start those new lives. The only reason they are stuck in tiny cramped hotel rooms is because we don't allow people to work while their claims are being processed. That process needs to be sped up so it takes a few weeks not months and months.

Have you tried to rent a house lately? In SE or anywhere in the South? Nope I didn’t think so.

HamBone · 07/03/2023 13:36

@ilovesooty I think everyone can agree that dangerous Channel crossings that put asylum seekers’ lives at risk need to stop, don’t they? Asylum seekers are legally allowed to enter the UK, but this dangerous way isn’t preferable, is it?

Setting up some sort of immigration centre in conjunction with France so that asylum seekers could at least be registered and their applications could undergo some preliminary processing, would be far safer. They could then be safely transported to the UK.

lazycats · 07/03/2023 13:36

Springchicken75 · 07/03/2023 13:35

Well my dear friend, it’s just about to become legal. So we will see. Labours plan is what? Fling open the doors - it’s a free for all. Great. Let’s see how that goes down !!

"Immigration will be awful under Labour, just like it is under this government! That's why I'm voting tory!"

Every time. 😂

jgw1 · 07/03/2023 13:37

MarshaBradyo · 07/03/2023 13:32

I don’t think that matters so much

I tried to find info for another thread and found this. I was surprised at numbers which were higher than expected

Two-thirds (68%) of Britons think that the UK should refuse to accept asylum applications from people who have entered the UK illegally and could reasonably have claimed asylum in another safe country.

The majority (61%) also support attempting to intercept migrant boats in the English Channel and turning them back towards France

Why do you think Labour is more trusted on migration that the Tories?

Springchicken75 · 07/03/2023 13:37

Or we could just go down the same route as Sweden, Italy etc and see a massive rise in the far right.
Personally this feels much better to me.

Bakingdiva · 07/03/2023 13:38

This seems to me to be entirely about the headlines, not about what can / should actually be done. It is a hugely complicated issue and a single, simplistic policy like this isn't going to address it.

My understanding is that immigration involves push factors and pull factors.

The push factors are why people leave their home countries. It can be political / safety (war, famine, environment - earthquake for instance) or economic.

Although we (the UK) can have an effect on these, it is not something that we can change quickly (or on our own). The political / safety factors are why the asylum process was set up in the first place.

The pull factors are, having left their home country, why do they want to come to THIS country, rather than another. Again, this is not generally a single reason.

The first has to do with our country's imperial history. People in many countries have historic links to this country due to the Empire, and there has historically been a subconscious, pervasive idea that England / English culture is something to aspire to, and this has been continued by English being a language that many people speak as their second language. This is not a moral judgement, simply stating the historical context. If someone is restarting their life from scratch they are far more likely to believe they will be successful in a (vaguely) familiar environment where they speak the language already. We cannot change this - it is a historic legacy.

Secondly, there is our internal situation where it is, compared to other countries, much easier for people to work here in the black market. For economic migrant especially, often people from their home country have gone to the UK already and are sending money back. They see this and therefore think that they can earn more here than they could elsewhere.

Add in to that a distinctly lax immigration system (once people are in the country). Our immigration system is woefully underfunded and therefore people are simply let go and can easily disappear. Again - knowledge of this is will be communicated to others. There is a backlog of thousands of asylum claims which need to be dealt with and, even if someone is denied asylum, if their whereabouts are unknown, it is impossible to deport them.

The small boats issue / crack down is a red herring. We need to reduce the pull factors stopping as many people wanting to come here.

To me there are 2 ways of doing this - firstly by ensuring that the immigration system is properly funded so there is the time and capacity to keep track of people who have come into the country. More funding should be provided to ensure that asylum claims are dealt with swiftly and, once the case is decided, to ensure that people can be swiftly removed.

I also think that introducing something like a national ID card would help dramatically - it would provide an easy (hopefully less forgeable) way to people's right to work to be checked and remove a chunk of the black market thereby reducing one of the pull factors.

Sorry for the essay! Even this long, I don't think it covers everything.

jgw1 · 07/03/2023 13:38

lazycats · 07/03/2023 13:36

"Immigration will be awful under Labour, just like it is under this government! That's why I'm voting tory!"

Every time. 😂

I am also voting Tory because Boris knows what a woman is.

IClaudine · 07/03/2023 13:39

MarshaBradyo · 07/03/2023 13:32

I don’t think that matters so much

I tried to find info for another thread and found this. I was surprised at numbers which were higher than expected

Two-thirds (68%) of Britons think that the UK should refuse to accept asylum applications from people who have entered the UK illegally and could reasonably have claimed asylum in another safe country.

The majority (61%) also support attempting to intercept migrant boats in the English Channel and turning them back towards France

Link please Marsha?

SerendipityJane · 07/03/2023 13:39

I don't think Braverman or Sunak want the scheme to work,

Of course they don't. If they did they'd come up with something sensible.

However this batshit scheme (you can tell how by the low quality critical thinking it appeals to) will allow them to blame yuman rights and close the gap between us and fascism that tiny bit more.

jgw1 · 07/03/2023 13:40

Springchicken75 · 07/03/2023 13:37

Or we could just go down the same route as Sweden, Italy etc and see a massive rise in the far right.
Personally this feels much better to me.

Umm. By we do you mean the UK?

I'm confused.

DrMaryMalone · 07/03/2023 13:41

Just to pick up on OPs point that GB is a "tiny island", it is not compared to Malta. I lived there for a number of years when they were experiencing massive numbers of what they called "boat people" from sub Saharan Africa crossing from larger ships off the coast of north Africa daily in the summer months when better weather could be almost guaranteed. Usually they were rescued in tiny dinghies trying to cross to Italy with numerous fatalities. The number of those disembarking seems to have slowed down in recent years (from a high of 3406 in 2019 to 444 in 2022). Given the island is only 17 miles long and 9 miles wide (smaller than the Isle of White!) those are not insignificant numbers. Sightly off topic as the vast majority of those crossing the English channel in small boats are not from the same area but I just wanted to point out that for other countries this is not a new issue.

MarshaBradyo · 07/03/2023 13:41

Springchicken75 · 07/03/2023 13:37

Or we could just go down the same route as Sweden, Italy etc and see a massive rise in the far right.
Personally this feels much better to me.

It’ll keep being an issue unless solved. Aus is a good example of where it is now bi partisan. Labor also adhere to the same policy even though Liberals brought it in.

I’d say the same will happen here as no party will undo policies that stop boats.

MissyB1 · 07/03/2023 13:41

SerendipityJane · 07/03/2023 13:39

I don't think Braverman or Sunak want the scheme to work,

Of course they don't. If they did they'd come up with something sensible.

However this batshit scheme (you can tell how by the low quality critical thinking it appeals to) will allow them to blame yuman rights and close the gap between us and fascism that tiny bit more.

That’s the most depressing thing about this, they know how many people are dim enough to fall for it.

IClaudine · 07/03/2023 13:42

100 million people are just itching to come to the UK according to that absolute (insert word of choice) Braverman.

It would be funny if it was not so utterly disgusting.

lazycats · 07/03/2023 13:43

jgw1 · 07/03/2023 13:37

Why do you think Labour is more trusted on migration that the Tories?

A pertinent point.

Talking tough but being incompetent makes you less trusted than just not saying anything at all.

ConcordeOoter · 07/03/2023 13:46

Springchicken75 · 07/03/2023 13:25

This is why I can never vote for Labour. They have no idea how bad the situation is, and are way too weak.

This is a very charitable way to look at it.

I think the evidence suggests both "sides" are actively in favour of mass immigration and will at best play for time with half-measures until such point as pragmatism changes their minds. ie: until the power and money might stop.

lazycats · 07/03/2023 13:48

ConcordeOoter · 07/03/2023 13:46

This is a very charitable way to look at it.

I think the evidence suggests both "sides" are actively in favour of mass immigration and will at best play for time with half-measures until such point as pragmatism changes their minds. ie: until the power and money might stop.

Don't worry, when we finally brexit all immigration will stop. Right?

MarshaBradyo · 07/03/2023 13:51

lazycats · 07/03/2023 13:43

A pertinent point.

Talking tough but being incompetent makes you less trusted than just not saying anything at all.

I think for some this is a party allegiance issue but taking out wanting Labour to win and looking at small boats issue what do you want to see happen?

Countries like Aus that adopt harsh measures keep the same even when the alternative party get in, because like here voters demand it.

So do you want to stop smugglers and how would you do it?

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