Page 18 | Is threatening illegal immigrants going to stop them coming?

LadyGAgain · 2023-03-06T07:19:24+00:00

Channel migrants face lifetime ban on returning to UK https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64848101 I read this with horror. I know we are a tiny island with limited resources but this legislation seems callous and cruel. These people are risking their very existence getting on these small boats and to then be locked up and shipped off again to who knows where. Plus the cost to us as tax payers. AIBU to suggest that I don't have a solution but this one seems extreme.

Zebedee55 · 07/03/2023 09:00

Of course it won't. Even a lot of senior Tories and right wing commentators are saying it won't. It's about the rhetoric , sounding tough, and putting out there so called differences between them and Labour - May elections coming up lol 🙄

lollipoprainbow · 07/03/2023 09:01

@Moonicorn flame you ?? I bloody applaud you !! Great post

jgw1 · 07/03/2023 09:01

Moonicorn · 07/03/2023 08:56

As usual, MN posters (or a lot of them) are seeing this through a ‘champagne socialist’ lens where they insist the tab should be picked up by the Tories, the magic money tree and the big corporations which will apparently hang around in the U.K. if we tax them more even though they’re already leaving.

Nobody has been able to explain to me why, having crossed through several safe and wealthy countries, these people are then willing to risk their lives and their children’s to cross to the U.K. Something about having friends here or a cousin? Really, you would risk your kid’s life for that? It’s bloody stupid, and I don’t think the U.K. should be taking on moral responsibility for these foolhardy and mad decisions.

Secondly, 90% of them are men. 90%! I don’t want to be offering asylum to overwhelmingly men. To me, women and children are the most vulnerable in conflict, I would much rather take them first as per Ukraine. If their home country is so incredibly dangerous they’re forced to leave and seek asylum, why are their wives and kids okay to stay there unaccompanied for another year+ while the bloke makes a run for it? Sorry, it speaks volumes about how they see the value of their women’s and children’s lives.

It’s fashionable to try to excuse away the above but if the U.K. was to descend into conflict tomorrow, there is absolutely no way DH would make a run for it without our daughter (and me!). No way. We would rather live in a safe and wealthy ‘second choice’ country together than two of us be left behind to face it while DH bunks off to somewhere which allegedly has more generous benefits.

Finally, while I don’t live in an area of high refugees, I really feel for those who do. It’s all very well the champagne/Prosecco socialists on here instructing everyone else to take these men, but if it was announced the houses across their nice street were to be made refugee HMOs they would hate it. There is a reason those who are living next to this chaos are the ones objecting, and I have every sympathy with them.

I was very happy to take Ukrainian refugees, I would be very happy to take virtually any number of Syrian/Afghan child refugees although I would want a safe route set up to get them here. But grown men who have run off and left them to face whatever enemy is so bad that they cannot stay themselves? Nope. Flame me 🤷🏼‍♀️

@Moonicorn are you saying that the UK should ignore international law and not take asylum seekers?
You are no doubt aware that around 90% of those who make asylum applications are granted some kind of right to remain in the UK, presumably those people making those decisions know which of them are men?

Threelefthands · 07/03/2023 09:02

IClaudine · 07/03/2023 08:57

It is just another example of never-going-to-happen populist blether from the Tories

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So have Labour come up with a better plan?

(Apart from "let's-throw-open-the-floodgates-and let-all-the-human-trash- that-no-other-country-wants-come-here-because-Tony-Blair-did-it" )

I'm all ears.🙄

lollipoprainbow · 07/03/2023 09:02

@jgw1 you're like a broken record give it a rest.

IClaudine · 07/03/2023 09:03

Finally, while I don’t live in an area of high refugees, I really feel for those who do

And there we have it. Research shows that the people most afraid of/against immigration have no experience of living with people from other countries.

I lived in such an area for 30+ years. As with any densley populated area there were issues at times. But by and large I loved living there. The diversity was vast, brilliant and vibrant.

Threelefthands · 07/03/2023 09:04

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Zebedee55 · 07/03/2023 09:04

Threelefthands · 07/03/2023 09:02

So have Labour come up with a better plan?

(Apart from "let's-throw-open-the-floodgates-and let-all-the-human-trash- that-no-other-country-wants-come-here-because-Tony-Blair-did-it" )

I'm all ears.🙄

Show quote history

I'm all for having a plan, as the situation with hotels etc is getting untenable.

But it's no good having a plan that everyone knows is not going to work.

Better no plan than a Baldrick" cunning plan going nowhere.😚

jgw1 · 07/03/2023 09:04

Moonicorn · 07/03/2023 08:59

We need to put out the message in their countries of origin that we will only be accepting women and child refugees, we need to set up pick-up points in countries across mainland Europe where we can collect them. And that men need not apply because they won’t be accepted. They can stay and make an effort to free their own country like the Ukrainians, knowing their family are safe and looked after 🤷🏼‍♀️

On a point of factual accuracy, Ukrainian men are just as entitled to apply to have leave to remain in the UK under the various Ukraine schemes as women and children are. The reason there are relatively small numbers of Ukranian men applying is because they are barred from leaving Ukraine.

JassyRadlett · 07/03/2023 09:05

lollipoprainbow · 07/03/2023 09:02

@jgw1 you're like a broken record give it a rest.

Yeah @jgw1 you're so annoying with your actual facts and evidence and stuff.

jgw1 · 07/03/2023 09:06

lollipoprainbow · 07/03/2023 09:02

@jgw1 you're like a broken record give it a rest.

Well if posters will insist on restating the same flawed arguments over and over, I will quite happily keep pointing out the flaws in what they are saying. By all means try and engage in the discussion if you think you have something to add.

IClaudine · 07/03/2023 09:06

Threelefthands · 07/03/2023 09:02

So have Labour come up with a better plan?

(Apart from "let's-throw-open-the-floodgates-and let-all-the-human-trash- that-no-other-country-wants-come-here-because-Tony-Blair-did-it" )

I'm all ears.🙄

Show quote history

Labour aren't in power. When they issue their manifesto and outline their plans, I will be happy to discuss them with you.

BTW would you mind translating what you posted at the end two of your posts last night?

jgw1 · 07/03/2023 09:06

JassyRadlett · 07/03/2023 09:05

Yeah @jgw1 you're so annoying with your actual facts and evidence and stuff.

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Its outrageous to include facts and evidence, as used by experts. We all love Gove and support his view that we live in a world where we dont want experts.

jgw1 · 07/03/2023 09:07

IClaudine · 07/03/2023 09:06

Labour aren't in power. When they issue their manifesto and outline their plans, I will be happy to discuss them with you.

BTW would you mind translating what you posted at the end two of your posts last night?

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Trust me you don't want to know what the translations are.

Threelefthands · 07/03/2023 09:07

This reply has been deleted

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Moonicorn · 07/03/2023 09:07

jgw1 · 07/03/2023 09:01

@Moonicorn are you saying that the UK should ignore international law and not take asylum seekers?
You are no doubt aware that around 90% of those who make asylum applications are granted some kind of right to remain in the UK, presumably those people making those decisions know which of them are men?

Show quote history

I’m saying the international law on asylum isn’t fit for purpose and needs to be challenged by the U.K.

Moonicorn · 07/03/2023 09:08

jgw1 · 07/03/2023 09:04

On a point of factual accuracy, Ukrainian men are just as entitled to apply to have leave to remain in the UK under the various Ukraine schemes as women and children are. The reason there are relatively small numbers of Ukranian men applying is because they are barred from leaving Ukraine.

Show quote history

Absolutely, frankly I’m surprised many more of them haven’t made an illegal escape, but then they seem to have conviction and understand that if everyone constantly rolls over then half the world ends up in the hands of dictators 🤷🏼‍♀️

vanillamint · 07/03/2023 09:08

Can you exactly blame migrants coming over on a boat?

When schemes were open to Ukrainians so easily and accessible.

Where as my husbands auntie in Afghanistan whom is widowed lives alone with 4 daughters and cannot leave the house without a male and has already been threatened that her daughters will be taken away from her, has no route to come here? Where we would house her and not rely on government help for her!

jgw1 · 07/03/2023 09:09

Moonicorn · 07/03/2023 09:07

I’m saying the international law on asylum isn’t fit for purpose and needs to be challenged by the U.K.

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Do you know who drafted those laws?

DuncinToffee · 07/03/2023 09:10

Moonicorn · 07/03/2023 09:07

I’m saying the international law on asylum isn’t fit for purpose and needs to be challenged by the U.K.

Show quote history

So which parts of the 'international law on asylum' would you like not to apply to you if you ever found yourself in need of asylum?

vanillamint · 07/03/2023 09:11

IClaudine · 07/03/2023 09:03

Finally, while I don’t live in an area of high refugees, I really feel for those who do

And there we have it. Research shows that the people most afraid of/against immigration have no experience of living with people from other countries.

I lived in such an area for 30+ years. As with any densley populated area there were issues at times. But by and large I loved living there. The diversity was vast, brilliant and vibrant.

Same! I miss living in my old borough of London right near Heathrow.

Best people I know/have friends are all immigrants.

Where as up north where I am now, people who don't have a clue In this village sneer at it all.

Rather be next to my lovely Ahmed than snooty Karen

Threelefthands · 07/03/2023 09:11

This reply has been deleted

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Moonicorn · 07/03/2023 09:11

jgw1 · 07/03/2023 09:09

Do you know who drafted those laws?

Show quote history

It doesn’t matter, they’re hugely outdated and no longer fit for purpose. We need a global refugee treaty where we can evenly distribute refugees and collaborate to find them suitable homes.

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 07/03/2023 09:11

Germany is considering something similar. They need qualified migrants, and it seems they cannot find them.
www.dw.com/en/new-german-migration-official-aims-to-send-refugees-to-africa/a-64667296

MarshaBradyo · 07/03/2023 09:12

Moonicorn · 07/03/2023 08:56

As usual, MN posters (or a lot of them) are seeing this through a ‘champagne socialist’ lens where they insist the tab should be picked up by the Tories, the magic money tree and the big corporations which will apparently hang around in the U.K. if we tax them more even though they’re already leaving.

Nobody has been able to explain to me why, having crossed through several safe and wealthy countries, these people are then willing to risk their lives and their children’s to cross to the U.K. Something about having friends here or a cousin? Really, you would risk your kid’s life for that? It’s bloody stupid, and I don’t think the U.K. should be taking on moral responsibility for these foolhardy and mad decisions.

Secondly, 90% of them are men. 90%! I don’t want to be offering asylum to overwhelmingly men. To me, women and children are the most vulnerable in conflict, I would much rather take them first as per Ukraine. If their home country is so incredibly dangerous they’re forced to leave and seek asylum, why are their wives and kids okay to stay there unaccompanied for another year+ while the bloke makes a run for it? Sorry, it speaks volumes about how they see the value of their women’s and children’s lives.

It’s fashionable to try to excuse away the above but if the U.K. was to descend into conflict tomorrow, there is absolutely no way DH would make a run for it without our daughter (and me!). No way. We would rather live in a safe and wealthy ‘second choice’ country together than two of us be left behind to face it while DH bunks off to somewhere which allegedly has more generous benefits.

Finally, while I don’t live in an area of high refugees, I really feel for those who do. It’s all very well the champagne/Prosecco socialists on here instructing everyone else to take these men, but if it was announced the houses across their nice street were to be made refugee HMOs they would hate it. There is a reason those who are living next to this chaos are the ones objecting, and I have every sympathy with them.

I was very happy to take Ukrainian refugees, I would be very happy to take virtually any number of Syrian/Afghan child refugees although I would want a safe route set up to get them here. But grown men who have run off and left them to face whatever enemy is so bad that they cannot stay themselves? Nope. Flame me 🤷🏼‍♀️

These threads descend to the usual sneers etc between posters which is easy to skip as it’s pointless.

The long term situation is not going to improve. The numbers I posted below show the increase and climate change will cause more displacement.

It will likely become a bi partisan issue for citizens as it has in Australia. Stopping boats can be and likely is separate to creating routes for people to use. Although my question is do posters want caps on those or unlimited?

If caps how do you apply criteria to decide. If unlimited how many do they envisage?