Page 16 | Is threatening illegal immigrants going to stop them coming?

LadyGAgain · 2023-03-06T07:19:24+00:00

Channel migrants face lifetime ban on returning to UK https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64848101 I read this with horror. I know we are a tiny island with limited resources but this legislation seems callous and cruel. These people are risking their very existence getting on these small boats and to then be locked up and shipped off again to who knows where. Plus the cost to us as tax payers. AIBU to suggest that I don't have a solution but this one seems extreme.

GPTec1 · 07/03/2023 07:30

MarshaBradyo · 07/03/2023 07:15

True. People need to factor in what makes companies and people move as well as getting the tax we need. Losing high profit to o/s isn’t good.

We’re even more stuffed if tax regulation drives it away. Moves to ROI for companies is a good example of what happens.

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The lack of access to the EU's SM cannot be ignored with AZ, neither can the lack of inward investment into the UK, the opt out from Horizon too.

Remember our corporate tax rates have been super low for 7 years (19%, Germany 30% France 34%) and have not stopped companies leaving the UK and the lack of companies relocating to the UK, we ve had/still got political instability too.
Our public services are also terrible, companies don't want workers off sick because they can't get prompt medical treatment or it takes them 2/3 hours to get to work and they can't afford a house to live in.

ARM went to NYSE because of investment lower valuation on the LSE.

MarshaBradyo · 07/03/2023 07:33

I don’t see the issue with stopping boats. Surely no ons wants that danger to continue.

The recent event off the coast of Italy was terrifying. Smugglers don’t care if they take extra profit from overloaded boats or if they have to throw children out to lighten it.

I’d like to see it stopped. If other routes are set up after then somehow numbers will likely be managed.

hoover12345 · 07/03/2023 07:36

Redebs · 06/03/2023 07:35

It's horrific. The most desperate people will be penalised forever.

I still don't understand why this government gave financial incentives to refugees from Ukraine, but threaten to send refugees from Syria and Afghanistan to Rwanda.

Have you not seen all the hotels closing cancelling weddings, Xmas parties to house Syrians? We only have a few hotels left in my area the rest are closed for Syrians. I know a lot is to do with the money they are given to house them. They aren't being sent to other places. How long can this go on for? Our island isn't built to hold this many people. They have money like another poster said to pay thousands to be sent over here so they can stop at France, or wherever they like. So it does make me question why they want to desperately come to the Uk.

lollipoprainbow · 07/03/2023 07:39

@j 100k homeless families in Uk ok then ! As I said before utterly deluded.

cakeorwine · 07/03/2023 07:42

hoover12345 · 07/03/2023 07:36

Have you not seen all the hotels closing cancelling weddings, Xmas parties to house Syrians? We only have a few hotels left in my area the rest are closed for Syrians. I know a lot is to do with the money they are given to house them. They aren't being sent to other places. How long can this go on for? Our island isn't built to hold this many people. They have money like another poster said to pay thousands to be sent over here so they can stop at France, or wherever they like. So it does make me question why they want to desperately come to the Uk.

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Bloody Syrians, fleeing a war zone, not wanting to live in one of the mass refugee camps in neighbouring countries and wanting to move to a country where they speak the language.

What would you do if you had to flee the UK? Would you prefer to live in a mass camp in France or try to use money you had to go to a country where they spoke a language that you understood?

I do wonder how people would react if they had to design a refugee / asylum system, knowing that the same law could apply to them?

Sirzy · 07/03/2023 07:43

The reason hotels are being used is because the goverment has piss poor systems in place which mean those who enter the country spend months/years waiting to be processed meaning they can’t work or anything in the process.

if we had a proper system in place the hotels wouldn’t be needed

hoover12345 · 07/03/2023 07:48

There are millions of Syrians wanting to take refuge here. There is only a small percentage of ukraines compared who came over so we could help them. How on earth could we cope with doing that for every refugee continually? Most Ukrainians will be going back to Ukraine when the time comes.

How are we not helping refugees when we can see hotels closing to house them. They are being offered houses but it's just not as quick as they you/they like. If the posters on here are complaining we do nothing to help why don't you take in a Syrian man, family etc do your bit.

lollipoprainbow · 07/03/2023 07:54

Sirzy · 07/03/2023 07:43

The reason hotels are being used is because the goverment has piss poor systems in place which mean those who enter the country spend months/years waiting to be processed meaning they can’t work or anything in the process.

if we had a proper system in place the hotels wouldn’t be needed

That's as maybe doesn't make it ok though.

Mamamia7962 · 07/03/2023 07:55

They aren't all fleeing war zones. Some are economic migrants who have been refused asylum in European countries.

ZeldaB · 07/03/2023 07:58

It is a very dumb policy. I won’t get into the ethics but the point is…

If someone is willing to take the risk of drowning, then they’ll also be willing to take the risk of being deported. Many victims of people smuggling have reported that

they were lied to and told its fine to seek work on arrival as a refugee in UK
when they saw the shitty dangerous boat they tried to refuse to board but were threatened with guns.

Arranging deportation to Rwanda after arrival does nothing to stop people smugglers lying to their victims and threatening them.

IClaudine · 07/03/2023 08:01

hoover12345 · 07/03/2023 07:48

There are millions of Syrians wanting to take refuge here. There is only a small percentage of ukraines compared who came over so we could help them. How on earth could we cope with doing that for every refugee continually? Most Ukrainians will be going back to Ukraine when the time comes.

How are we not helping refugees when we can see hotels closing to house them. They are being offered houses but it's just not as quick as they you/they like. If the posters on here are complaining we do nothing to help why don't you take in a Syrian man, family etc do your bit.

Do you have a source for the assertion that millions of Syrians are wanting to come here? To date we have only accepted 5,000 Syrian refugees. Other European countries have accepted tens of thousands more.

GPTec1 · 07/03/2023 08:03

Mamamia7962 · 07/03/2023 07:55

They aren't all fleeing war zones. Some are economic migrants who have been refused asylum in European countries.

Absolutely and when we were in the EU, we had a mechanism called the Dublin Convention where they could be sent back, true we didn't use it much but whose fault is that? plus of course we never had the numbers crossing the channel either.

Now we don't have that and are beholden to the French, hence Sunak going over with his begging bowl to Macron in a couple of weeks.

We all knew what we were voting for.

Pity this isn't asked of Sunak and Braverman.

Seventysunsetstrip · 07/03/2023 08:05

jgw1 · 07/03/2023 06:08

If that richest 1% paid the same proportion of their income in taxes as nurses do, then the Exchequer would have an increase in income greater than the expediture needed to give nurses and all other NHS staff an above inflation pay rise. With the added benefit to the economy that nurses are far more likely to spend that money in the UK economy that the very rich.

You obviously know nothing about nurses pay (or how tax works).
When I worked for the NHS I paid a third of my income every month in stoppages. (NI, superannuation and tax which was 25% at the time,)

The highest earning 1% in the UK pay an estimated 28% of all income tax. This is close to a record level, but it isn’t quite the highest percentage ever – the top 1% paid an estimated 29% in 2015/16.

They pay at 45% which is a lot more than nurses who pay 20%.

Get your facts straight before spouting all this Socialist rubbish.

Notonthestairs · 07/03/2023 08:06

"if we had a proper system in place the hotels wouldn’t be needed"

Quite.

97 per cent of those who came to the UK last year havent been processed yet.

Two thirds of people on small boats are assessed by the UK as being genuine refugees.

Mass detention is costly and will require facilities to be built (I guess thats good for the building trade/whichever donor gets that job). We are already housing that 97 per cent from last year.

I have seen nothing that suggests that it will either be quicker or cheaper (years to implement) and we will continue to need to house those people whilst the policy inevitably stalls.

The policy is nothing more than desperate attempt to garner some headlines in the run up to the next election. They wont ever implement it because they know their time will be out by then.

Its not a serious attempt to stop the boats - that would require greater investment in swift processing and the opening of assessment centres in France and safe routes.

But by all means swallow the nonsense. But it wont fix anything and no doubt it will end up costing us more.

MarshaBradyo · 07/03/2023 08:10

The upward trend is global

The recent rise in Channel crossings mirrors a longer-term global increase in displaced people. According to the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), the number of forcibly displaced people has more than doubled since 2011 and stood at 89.3 million at the end of 2021.

I doubt it will decrease as climate change impacts. Countries will get more pressure from citizens to act, so smuggling isn’t an even more profitable and major way to make money and cause deaths.

jgw1 · 07/03/2023 08:11

MarshaBradyo · 07/03/2023 07:33

I don’t see the issue with stopping boats. Surely no ons wants that danger to continue.

The recent event off the coast of Italy was terrifying. Smugglers don’t care if they take extra profit from overloaded boats or if they have to throw children out to lighten it.

I’d like to see it stopped. If other routes are set up after then somehow numbers will likely be managed.

Why don't migrants from Ukraine or HK cross the Channel in small boats?

jgw1 · 07/03/2023 08:12

cakeorwine · 07/03/2023 07:42

Bloody Syrians, fleeing a war zone, not wanting to live in one of the mass refugee camps in neighbouring countries and wanting to move to a country where they speak the language.

What would you do if you had to flee the UK? Would you prefer to live in a mass camp in France or try to use money you had to go to a country where they spoke a language that you understood?

I do wonder how people would react if they had to design a refugee / asylum system, knowing that the same law could apply to them?

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It won't apply to me though, because I am British.

Florenz · 07/03/2023 08:13

What is the point of making it illegal to come back here when they're here illegally in the first place?

IClaudine · 07/03/2023 08:13

Notonthestairs Exactly. It will never happen. Stop the Boats is a repulsive soundbite, thought up by a vile, morally bankrupt government that is in its death throes.

jgw1 · 07/03/2023 08:13

Seventysunsetstrip · 07/03/2023 08:05

You obviously know nothing about nurses pay (or how tax works).
When I worked for the NHS I paid a third of my income every month in stoppages. (NI, superannuation and tax which was 25% at the time,)

The highest earning 1% in the UK pay an estimated 28% of all income tax. This is close to a record level, but it isn’t quite the highest percentage ever – the top 1% paid an estimated 29% in 2015/16.

They pay at 45% which is a lot more than nurses who pay 20%.

Get your facts straight before spouting all this Socialist rubbish.

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Are there any indirect taxes in the UK?
I take it you think the ONS spout Socialist rubbish since that is where the information comes from.

IClaudine · 07/03/2023 08:14

Florenz · 07/03/2023 08:13

What is the point of making it illegal to come back here when they're here illegally in the first place?

It is not illegal to come here and claim asylum.

jgw1 · 07/03/2023 08:14

Florenz · 07/03/2023 08:13

What is the point of making it illegal to come back here when they're here illegally in the first place?

Who is here illegally?

You do know that it is impossible for an asylum seeker to be somewhere illegally?

jgw1 · 07/03/2023 08:15

IClaudine · 07/03/2023 08:13

Notonthestairs Exactly. It will never happen. Stop the Boats is a repulsive soundbite, thought up by a vile, morally bankrupt government that is in its death throes.

The government has no interest in stopping the boats. They are only interested in as you say repulsive sound bites that play to a particular part of the electorate. If they were interested in stopping the boats they would have provided safe routes to the UK as they have done for those from Ukraine and HK.

Conkersinautumn · 07/03/2023 08:16

It's not illegal to migrate. Brits do it all the time. The UK takes very few refugees and surprise, surprise does not 'pull its weight' dealing with supporting refugees internationally.

Mamamia7962 · 07/03/2023 08:18

jgw1 - They are here illegally if their asylum claim has already been rejected by other European countries or they are economic migrants.