Is threatening illegal immigrants going to stop them coming?

[LadyGAgain]

Channel migrants face lifetime ban on returning to UK www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64848101

I read this with horror. I know we are a tiny island with limited resources but this legislation seems callous and cruel. These people are risking their very existence getting on these small boats and to then be locked up and shipped off again to who knows where. Plus the cost to us as tax payers. AIBU to suggest that I don't have a solution but this one seems extreme.

How is that a barrier to human habitation? Hell, we aren’t self sufficient because we have too high a population density. Norway doesn’t need to be self-sufficient in terms of arable land or food production. And we can build a home on any scrap of land no matter the terrain.

It's not a competition. We are all human beings.
There's not a scarcity of resources. There's an utter mismanagement of them.

There’s a scarcity. You’re trying to say all the overworked nurses and doctors are mismanaging their time…when literally there are too few of them for the population. There are also too few hospital beds.

Oh there isn't a scarcity of resources and adding a few extra million people won't increase contention. It's just people in top hats and monacles doing inequality and the answer is just not to worry about it. Phew!

Right you are carry on then. It'll all be fine because you can say there isn't a scarcity of resources right in front of everybody here with a straight fucking face.

👏 Amazing.

The 1% are obviously eating the 99% of tomatoes missing from the shops.
And also they’re not using their private healthcare but going to NHS A&Es all day everyday for champagne party hangover cures so that accounts for the 72hr wait times.

All it will do is push them further up the coast probably leaving from Dunkirk, Brussels or the Netherlands, facing at least 3 times as long at sea, risking their lives even more to land on the East Coast in the hope they don't get caught. There needs to be some kind of agreement between the UK & mainland Europe to share the Immigrants between all the countries. It wouldn't be ideal but cheaper than the Rwanda plan & housing them in hotels & camps here. Set them to work, anyone not qualified working on the land picking crops to pay for their accommodation, jobs like cleaning or anything else where jobs can't be filled, after say 5 years allow them to have settled status.

They aren't breaking the law. Its perfectly legal to travel here to claim asylum.

If the government provided a system where they could apply for asylum from their own countries, there'd be no need for them to make these journeys and be put up in hotels at government expense. They could come by normal means, apply for jobs, and provide for themselves and their families.
But oddly enough the government does not provide them with those means to apply from their home country, and simply gaslights the electorate by calling these people illegal, when they're not..

You do realise that the top 1% in the UK own c.24-26% of all wealth right?

65,000 people have around £4,000,000,000,000 between them and that's just people, never mind what businesses have safely nestled away in shell corporations, subsiduaries, and holding companies.

If you think the issues with public servives and falling standards of living are anything but a government choice you're naive at best.

There needs to be some kind of agreement between the UK & mainland Europe to share the Immigrants between all the countries

If we took our share, we'd need to take in more people than we already do. Other countries take far more than us. The channel provides much more of a barrier than land borders, so we get fewer coming here than end up staying in Germany or France etc. So be careful what you wish for.

Its too late for me to find the statistics to link, but we absolutely do not take our fare share compared to other countries.

Putting aside whether the system is fair or not, I was thinking about this. What would I do if I thought my choice was

• pay £1500 to people smugglers for a dangerous boat trip across the channel, then get put straight on a flight to Rwanda, have my finger prints taken and no chance of returning

or

Settle in the first safe country.

Me personally, I'd settle in the safe country I'd already reached, but I'm not desperate.

I wouldn’t worry too much OP, it won’t stop them coming in their droves … unfortunately.

There is no logical reason why you would enter a safe country but still risk your life and your child’s life to come to Britain. “because they speak English and have family here”. Erm yeah right..🙄

Worth a try. If it's truly life or death I can't see why it would make a difference.

And you do realise if we impose heavy taxes then they will leave the country and take the enormous amount of tax they are paying with them right?

American companies are already buggering off to ROI because they find the U.K. too tax heavy.

I am sure that many EU countries would be delighted by such an agreement, since he would see the UK having more asylum seekers than it does now and them fewer.

If that richest 1% paid the same proportion of their income in taxes as nurses do, then the Exchequer would have an increase in income greater than the expediture needed to give nurses and all other NHS staff an above inflation pay rise. With the added benefit to the economy that nurses are far more likely to spend that money in the UK economy that the very rich.

The stats are already linked in this thread. There was though a strange argument about how Norway should take more than the UK because of its large land area, ignoring that its population is 13 times smaller..

Exactly

Is there a lack of housing in the UK?

Yes @jgw1 there is but no doubt you live in a very nice house so wouldn't know.

There are thousands on the housing list myself included who don't stand a chance of getting anywhere to live for years and you honestly think that allowing thousands more to live here will be ok? So deluded along with so many others on here.

True. People need to factor in what makes companies and people move as well as getting the tax we need. Losing high profit to o/s isn’t good.

We’re even more stuffed if tax regulation drives it away. Moves to ROI for companies is a good example of what happens.

There are an estimated 772,000 second homes in the UK, which most of the time sit empty.
There are a further 250,000 homes that are registered as empty for council tax purposes.
There are an estimated 100,000 homeless families in the UK.

There is not a shortage of housing in the UK. There is a problem with the distribution of housing and its price.

ROI have a very low corporation tax - so not an even playing field at the moment. They are a handy low tax, English speaking country still in the EU.
Perhaps we could lower ours.

Should we also factor in the much greater impact on the economy of the low paid not being paid a little more, which they will spend the vast majority of in their local areas, whereas the very rich tend to just hoard their wealth and not use it?

I think we should be investing in managing refugees nearer their countries. We have invested in some camps.

If we helped to make life bearable nearer their own countries then it would be easier for them to return when safe to do so.

People are coming to the U.K. because they want to live in the U.K. Let's not be naive about this.

They are doing well from it. We will probably have the zones back for some corporations.

As for people they are even more mobile. People might think they can extract a few more millions from a certain group but very easy to find another country more willing to not do so.

That would cut against Tory policy to reduce the international aid budget.