To be upset that toddlers and babies are being subjected to this.

[flashbac]

This is abuse. What kind of parent takes their baby to a show like this?

ah yes organised religion/churches, those famously free-of-pedophiles places

This reminds me of an essay a few years back in the Washington Post. A self-described Queer woman with a Queer male partner wrote about the benefits of bringing minor children (hers were elementary ages) to a Pride parade (okay) because it showed them not to be ashamed of their sexual selves (hmmm) and because exposure to kink is good for kids (oh hell no) and at home they don't shy away from being their full sexual selves in front of their children (bad, very bad). It was a shocking essay.

The comments were full of people saying "call CPS" "call police". Several people were giving practical advice on how to report her and her spouse to the authorities. She wasn't anonymous and her city was listed in her bio. I reported her as well. There was also a lot of people wondering why the WaPo had published it...I'm of a mind that it's better to know who the dangerous people are so the authorities have probable cause to investigate. I actually believe the editorial staff did right by showcasing this kind of child ideology in the mother's own words. It was child abuse in plain sight.

Am I missing something? If it's not okay socially to take a child to a strip club why is this supposed to be family friendly? A drag show that isn't sexual but more about the make-up or dance/singing performance I could kind of get, but this seems like an explicitly sexual show?

Exactly. There is no literally difference between that and choosing to watch porn with your children. The adults are indulging in kink and other behaviours that allow them to display their ‘sexual selves’ in order to become sexually aroused. Fair enough, I suppose, but why do they need their children there.

We should be asking exactly the same question about this mother and baby group. Not simply dismissing them as useful idiots. They are useful idiots, no doubt. But adults who display their sexual selves to their children are also paedophiles. Let’s call this what it is, please.

'A self-described Queer woman with a Queer male partner'

Am I being stupid, or is this thread now missing from Active and AIBU?

Am I being stupid, or is this thread now missing from Active and AIBU?

Am I being stupid, or is this thread now missing from Active and AIBU?

Apologies for the multiple posting.

Just saying 'I can't prove it' would have been quicker to type

I am also not fucking stupid

You got this bit wrong as well...

BirlinBrain · Today 18:07
Am I being stupid, or is this thread now missing from Active and AIBU?

I am not sure. I’ll just try to see.

I'm not bothered about babies seeing naked bodies and skin - it's perfectly normal in some cultures

But I am hugely bothered by the way sexualised events having children attending are being normalised

Back in 96 there was outrage over Jonbenet being involved in beauty pageants and yet today- if you say something isn't appropriate for kids you become labelled a phobe and are expected to be totally on board with kids being at these kind of events in the name of inclusivity

I don't mind if a circus performer, acrobat whatever wears a skimpy leotard or if men wear heels

I hugely object to the idea we need to move into a world where kink and fetish meet children

I took my kid to pride once, and loved that I was teaching him it's fine to love who you want but I wouldn't dare take a kid now because it's way beyond "adults can love any adult they want" being celebrated and gone into a narcissistic performance of kink and call me old fashioned but I don't think that is any kind of awareness a child below the age of consent needs

We've always been fine with panto dames for kids is one argument- and I agree but they weren't sexual, they were comedic and always in the theatre- nobody was having sit ins to get it normalised in mainstream society to children for libraries and mum and baby events.

My biggest concern is society doesn't let you choose what is appropriate for your children anymore, but actively demonises you for having any boundaries on what's appropriate for your child. Currently nobody would call me a bigot for not letting DS (10) watch horror movies, a few might call me overprotective perhaps but yet I'd be called a bigot for choosing to not expose him to drag or wanting to explain furries from a pride parade these days 🤷‍♀️

Is it this one?

www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/06/29/pride-month-kink-consent/

It is available at archive sites, but the links tend to get hidden.

Yes! Thanks for finding it, Arabella! I was too lazy this Sunday to dig. I owe you a search :)

nae bother, hen!

Could I ask, if anyone is concerned about erosion of boundaries, that they consider checking out and perhaps signing this petition to prompt a discussion in Parliament of the Equality Act?

www.mumsnet.com/talk/petitions_noticeboard/4722618-petition-to-update-the-equality-act-thread-2

A quote from this mother. She tells us exactly what she thinks and it's strikingly similar to what the earlier poster Der Spiegel article detailed about sexualizing children in Germany in the 70s.

"Including kink in Pride opens space for families to have necessary and powerful conversations with young people about health, safety, consent, and — most uniquely — pleasure. Kink visibility is a reminder that any person can and should shamelessly explore what brings joy and excitement. We don’t talk to our children enough about pursuing sex to fulfill carnal needs that delight and captivate us in the moment. Sharing the language of kink culture with young people provides them with valuable information about safe sex practices — such as the importance of establishing boundaries, safe words and signals, affirming the importance of planning and research and the need to seek and give enthusiastic consent. I never want my children to worry that exploring any aspect of consensual sex or touch is too taboo."

A comment on that article that should give us all serious pause:

"A lot of fetishes are rooted in childhood exposure to a stimulus that gets accidentally conditioned to be associated with pleasure and then reinforced over time by continual exposure. Kids exposed to kinks in their formative years are certainly more likely to develop them themselves- and yes, you can be a healthy person and have kinks, but those tend to be folks who have discovered them later in life. With children there is a risk of paraphilic disorder, where the kink becomes so intense that the person can't connect intimately with others because they only get pleasure from their kink, or become pathologically addicted to their fetish to the point of distress, self harm, financial or legal troubles. When someone goes down this path at a very young age, it could become deeply ingrained in their psyche like this. I had little boundaries and supervision growing up, and I am speaking from personal experience here. I still can't connect intimately with other human beings and it's driven me to be suicidal at times and put me in multiple dangerously abusive relationships. I'm 28 and still don't even know what my orientation is because all I have is my disorder. I've been in therapy for it for many years and am still in recovery. I wouldn't wish this on anyone."

'I never want my children to worry that exploring any aspect of consensual sex or touch is too taboo."
🧐🧐🧐

On the other hand- most of us parents aren't worrying about CHILDREN being sexually repressed and prefer them to become adults first before exploring how to enjoy sex.

When our children grew tired of marching, we plopped onto a nearby curb. Just as we got settled, our elementary-schooler pointed in the direction of oncoming floats, raising an eyebrow at a bare-chested man in dark sunglasses whose black suspenders clipped into a leather thong. The man paused to be spanked playfully by a partner with a flog. “What are they doing?” my curious kid asked as our toddler cheered them on. The pair was the first of a few dozen kinksters who danced down the street, laughing together as they twirled their whips and batons, some leading companions by leashes. At the time, my children were too young to understand the nuance of the situation, but I told them the truth: That these folks were members of our community celebrating who they are and what they like to do.

FFS! The description of Lord Byron comes to mind...!

It’s deeply, deeply sad. Virtue signalling is more important than your own child’s safety.
Any man wanting to parade themselves and writhe around in front of infants like that is a pervert at the very least and should NOT be allowed around children.

a few dozen kinksters who danced down the street, laughing together as they twirled their whips and batons, some leading companions by leashes

'and then the toddlers applauded the fetish display'

There'd be outrage about flogging on a float done non sexually in front of small kids

But since toddlers don't actually develop sexually- how are they meant to understand it even if it was as they say "nothing perverted or paedophiliac"

To a toddler - that's a flogging mate.

Extract from the above:

"A lot of fetishes are rooted in childhood exposure to a stimulus that gets accidentally conditioned to be associated with pleasure and then reinforced over time by continual exposure. Kids exposed to kinks in their formative years are certainly more likely to develop them themselves- and yes, you can be a healthy person and have kinks, but those tend to be folks who have discovered them later in life. With children there is a risk of paraphilic disorder, where the kink becomes so intense that the person can't connect intimately with others because they only get pleasure from their kink, or become pathologically addicted to their fetish to the point of distress, self harm, financial or legal troubles.”

Remember WankyRubberMan at the NSPCC?

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nspccs-top-celeb-booker-filmed-20568053

IIRC there was an video interview on YouTube of him talking to a fellow member of the London Leathermen about how he believed his rubber fetish had begun in childhood via the discarded wetsuits of an adult male friend of the family.

The video pre dated the NSPCC story and was privated when we started rifling through his online footprint.