To be upset that toddlers and babies are being subjected to this.

[flashbac]

This is abuse. What kind of parent takes their baby to a show like this?

It looks weird and slightly inappropriate, but hardly abuse. 😆

I hope those grinning idiots who think it’s all a bit of ‘harmless’ fun take a long hard look at why their mugs are plastered all over social media and the Daily Mail today.

Oh no, the Mail have deemed something inappropriate! I must listen to what those fine upstanding gentlemen of impeccable moral compass at the Mail have to say.

Easier? It shouldn't be "easy" to explain. It's tough enough for adults to get their heads around

What part of exposing children to sexualised behaviour is not a form of child abuse?

It's wrong. It's very inappropriate. It is abuse.

And it's no laughing matter.

Yet every safeguarding failure inquiry says that staff safeguard the institution.

That's not what you said though is it?

I think it is shaming - accompanied by the text that this is child abuse, and what kind of parent would do this? Chances are they are not deliberately evil parents, chances are they have not thought this through. As discussion on the wrongs of subjecting children to drag shows grows, at least some of these women will most likely change their minds about acceptance of this, but these images and those women’s faces will remain on the internet and brought up time and time again. The internet is a relatively new tool and we don’t yet have a complete picture of the good it can do, or the damage it can cause.

I do wonder what your stance is on my third concern -the publishing of of the children’s faces on the internet?

That ^^

Other familiar serious case review inquiry questions:

• Did you think the unthinkable? (That maybe this person was lying/ was not in good faith/ consider what could happen if you were successfully being manipulated by them?)

• Did you ask the difficult questions? (Why am I doing this? Is this really ok? What are the backgrounds and motivations involved?)

In both cases: do not blindly believe and trust the front image being presented, think critically, do not easily trust. And it's not about asking yourself 'do I think this situation/person IS untrustworthy.... no! I'm sure they're lovely!' but to keep in mind 'if it turns out I HAVE been played... what will the consequences be to the person in need of protection, and how do I protect them against this?' It's a need for cynicism, for critical thinking. Essentially strong defenses against grooming, with the understanding that many people doing inappropriate things are lovely, charming and convincing, and may honestly believe they are not doing anything wrong.

And the other biggie:

• Did you place the needs of needy adults, who wanted a lot of your time, attention and care, and had a much stronger voice and presence, above the needs of the person you were there to safeguard?

Inquiries come up with the same issues over and over and over. The difficulty with well intentioned people being sucked in is a very consistent one since the days of the Climbe inquiry, and questions have been being asked for years as to why, when there's so much training, is this a hole that people just continue to drop into.

Hmmm. The Mail - in common with the Times and the Telegraph - have been writing about these issues for some time now.
Maybe you'd be better asking why the Guardian and the BBC have failed to report on this over the last 6 years? (although to be fair, the BBC have belatedly recognised that their role is to report and not silence women over this issue as they've been doing until recently).

A prime example of someone trying to say that it must only be old farts and Bufton Tufton types who would object.

Every village has its fool-that's life- but they are getting louder and actually being paid heed to. If the Daily Mail objects to this shite, then well done the Daily Mail!

This poster is clearly not very bright but she has found her gang and-although they are not a big gang-they make a lot of noise. This poster clearly doesn't understand the dangers of the gang but she thinks they are so cool and hopes it will rub off on her.

YOU ARE A FOOL.

I am saying that there are women taking children to these events, there are women who are supporting this ideology at work and it's my belief - fair enough not yours - that feminist academics have not dealt with motherhood and I believe that Mother's are at work having broken the mother child bond, who are safeguarding themselves, their colleagues and institutions before they own children and service users.

Some people get the rage if this is spoken about, I remember Maria Miller and Trans Activists getting the rage at me, shrug.

Oh hell no. Those groomers wouldn't be getting anywhere near my kids.

Have you watched the video?
One of the men is in bondage gear, writhing around and another is showing his bulge and arse in a tiny little thong!
twitter.com/dave24144975/status/1631925156456153088?t=WvmmFmVUcQrIT1s5J7xyXg&s=19

dollypartin · Yesterday 20:35

These look photoshopped/fake. I highly doubt anyone would take their child to a show like this, or that drag queens would do it? Seems unlikely

Many of the images and videos are on the company's own website, published by them. It's not fake, it's oddballs and stupid parents.

I do wonder what your stance is on my third concern -the publishing of of the children’s faces on the internet?

My stance is that it is not appropriate to be showing the faces of children. Many women who have posted images on this and the other thread have taken the time to obscure the children’s faces. I was always the parent who crossed out the ‘I give permission for my child’s image to be used.’ On every single admission form from school, to dance recitals, to anything.

I even questioned the organisers and supposedly the performer’s children being used as promotional props for these events. It is not acceptable, because these are events with sexualised content.

However, it has to be accepted that parents have allowed their child’s image to be used. Else they would have had the images modified as soon as they noticed their child was included.

I am saying that there are women taking children to these events, there are women who are supporting this ideology at work

These are two separate issues. Are you suggesting that working mothers are more likely to take their children to these events? And you're basing that on the fact that women you work work support this ideology?
That's a very weak link....

and it's my belief - fair enough not yours - that feminist academics have not dealt with motherhood and I believe that Mother's are at work having broken the mother child bond, who are safeguarding themselves, their colleagues and institutions before they own children and service users.

Again you're conflating a number of issues here .... I'm familiar with a lot of the literature around attachment, working parents and safeguarding and I'm not familiar with any evidence that shows specifically that working mothers (always the mother eh?!) don't prioritise the safeguarding of their own children.

Feeling old due to my licensing info being out of date 😆😅 (I last worked in this field in the 90s!) thank you for the correction though, I was impressed to come across a booklet that Leicester council issue to landlords re: looking out for children at risk of sexual exploitation.

Just in case you didn’t find them easily and seeing as I just summarised for someone else I will copy over here too (would’ve done it last night but half asleep):

The venues in the Caba Baba Rave photos are from:

The Birds in Leytonstone
www.thebirds.pub

Patchworks in Leyton
www.patchworks.xyz

and at first glance I think the mp for both is John Cryer? He’s Labour.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cryer

Council is Waltham Forest.

They’ve used several other venues
but all the photos I’ve seen so far seem to be from the above two. If any more photos surface I will try and find locations for them.

The orange bewigged drag queen with the little girl standing behind him is a completely separate event, in South East London (Honor Oak Pub, SE23 IJG, Borough of Lewisham, MP Vicky Foxcroft, Labour - this is the venue that has had protests outside so the authorities know about it but perhaps the licensing authorities need a direct complaint as a separate thing?)

Red boots performer: The Birds
Blue outfit performer: Patchworks
(I think both of these are the same man? Drag name is Lucinda B Hind)

Orange Wig performer: Honor Oak Pub
(drag queen is called Copper Topp)

The little girl’s face can be seen in the video I took this still from, which is on instagram. I wish I had a way to show her expression that didn’t overstep the boundaries of her privacy.

I posted earlier in the threat along the lines that these Mother's and children are now identifiable to men wanting to exploit them.

Please join the backlash against the Government doing nothing to stop this wave of rule by Transgender ideology, Transvestitism and Queering under the guise of ‘Inclusivity’.

Sign this, your privacy will be protected as it is an official Parliamentary site:
www.mumsnet.com/talk/petitions_noticeboard/4722618-petition-to-update-the-equality-act-thread-2

Ignore the Gov. comment on the site that says everything is fine. It isn’t because the various laws clash and are unclear.

Transactivists had their own petition not to listen to this one. That tells you all you need to know.

MrsOvertonsWindow · Today 10:04

Hmmm. The Mail - in common with the Times and the Telegraph - have been writing about these issues for some time now. Maybe you'd be better asking why the Guardian and the BBC have failed to report on this over the last 6 years?

It is a shame that only the likes of the Mail will actually publish these stories; I've been a Guardian reader since my early 20s, though I buy it only very rarely, these days. They appear to have taken leave of their senses in recent years, probably because they seem to be wet liberals, with a high proportion of trans and NB staff.

They sacked Suzanne Moore and drove Hadley Freeman out and just won't publish anything which dissents from the "TWAWAW, poor them, most oppressed, most vulnerable" party line.

These highly sexualised performances are absolutely not fit for young children and anybody who thinks that they are is either raving bonkers, or else has a sinister agenda, for getting access to children.

I am quite dubious now about academia.

I pay attention to science and research.

I also pay attention to my life experience and instincts.

It's not the trendy done thing, shrug.

If people don't have the religion of science alone to hold onto in life, they seem to struggle to cope.

It was Caba Baby Rave and the audience themselves who posted their faces on the internet.

We weren’t filming bethonged men waving their gussets at babies with a long distance lens.

I agree that it’s a bad thing that these images are online but the blame lays with those who organised the events and those who went to the events.

They posted the images to the internet - yet another safeguarding fail!

“As discussion on the wrongs of subjecting children to drag shows grows, at least some of these women will most likely change their minds about acceptance of this, but these images and those women’s faces will remain on the internet and brought up time and time again.”

Unfortunately, if you attend these events you do need to reconcile the fact that you are likely to appear on an Instagram feed or on YouTube. This is the nature of today’s technology and people posting images constantly.

That is partly why I believe that the media outlets blur out faces in the background.

Which then led to some people describing the images as ‘fake’.

MrsOvertonsWindow · Today 09:58
"These parents with their children are demonstrating trust and vulnerability, they are enacting belief in innocence and goodness, they are providing validation and praise. It's past time naivety and enablement like this was sorted out".

Such a good point. It's the silencing of debate that's allowed these unthinking views to develop. As has been pointed out, if this was a group of men taking their babies to the local strip joint, not only would they be investigated for failing to safeguard their children but the venue would be closed immediately for enabling paedophilia / predators.

We need to discuss and work out why this is happening and how to stop it - even if it means confronting views that we don't agree with / find uncomfortable.

Yes, this is a very strange new take on the image of the Madonna and Child.

Those look like perfectly sweet, kind, loving young women laughing, smiling, and holding their babies up in front of these perverse acts.

What on earth has induced them to think this is something to be lead into, like sheep with their lambs, into the wolves in sheeps’ clothing’s den?

I am quite dubious now about academia.

I pay attention to science and research.

You know academia is research yeah?

I agree. Pure crap.