Borrowed money from my mum

[Finallyoutofthewoods]

I know this thread will potentially get a lot of negative comments - please be kind

About 5 years ago I was in the worst financial position I had ever been in. Single parent, trying desperately to take on a mortgage alone after a family breakdown, in massive debt as I ended up saddled with the debt from my marriage as it had all been put in my name - anything we had done to our house, holidays, kids stuff, the lot had all gone in my name as my ex had a dreadful credit rating

My mum on the other hand is extremely financially well off - her house paid for in cash, she paid for her brand new car in cash, she receives the equivalent of a £60k salary in a private pension - my late fathers pension - as well as full state pension. My mum has not worked since she was in her early 20’s - I know Dad paid off her NI contributions so she would get full state pension. She has decent savings and literally doesn’t and never has had to worry about money. She spends money like it’s water though - she uses my email address for any large purchases she makes and for example she spent £8k on blinds for a really small conservatory a few months ago. The conservatory literally fits 2 small chairs and a cafe table in it, so why the blinds were £8k is beyond me.

5 years ago I asked if I could borrow £10k off her in an attempt to clear some of the debt so I would be able to cover the mortgage application to keep our family home. She lent it to me with the agreement that one day if I’m ever sorted I would start to pay it back

As it is, I ended up having to sell the property at a massive loss as I was just short on the mortgage amount and ended up taking on a further £12k credit card and loan debt to cover the mortgage shortfall, solicitors and estate agents fees - essentially wiping out the £10k that she had given me to help out.

I moved into a rented property and had around a total of £25k of credit card debt plus a £5k loan I had to take out to pay the mortgage shortfall off. Really struggled - had to feed my kids from a food bank. Lived an utterly miserable life truth be told and I honestly at my low points struggled to soldier on, especially through covid when I was furloughed and bringing in every less. She knew how low I was and at most, would pass me the odd £20 here and there.

I turned my life around 2 years ago through hard work. My debts are in a completely different place now - I’ve got £2k left on a credit card and my car - which I bought with a loan last year as had to have a decent ish car for work (sales job, car allowance and I cover around 20k miles+ per annum) I live with my new partner in his mortgaged house and pay towards that, we are hoping to buy a house together at some point but wont be doing until I actually have some savings to be able to pay towards the deposit

Anyway, I happened to mention to my mum that my debts were almost cleared and I could tell what she was thinking - that it was time to start paying the £10k back to her

Now I do appreciate that I did borrow this from her in good faith and she was so kind to help me out but Im finally at a stage where I can start to do things with my kids too as well as start a savings account. It’s like our lives have been on hold for over 5 years and she knows how much I’ve struggled. So for me to pay her back at the rate that I had been trying to clear my debts, it would mean that our lives are on hold for quite a bit longer

I have managed to clear my debts purely through commission I receive through my sales job - so it’s not guaranteed each month either. I’ve just worked hard and been lucky

I have considered asking if the debt could be factored into her will - so whatever the amount is, that my sibling would receive £10k more than me. Ive also considered proposing paying her back at a rate of £100 per month - equally I do feel like £100 is a drop in the ocean for her, she literally does not need it. I’m certainly not going to ignore the fact that the debt is there but I know she’s going to ask soon. What would you do?

I'm unsure why people are being nasty to you.

Lots of sad and bitter people on Mumsnet I'm afraid.

Congrats on turning your life around. Many cannot manage such a turnaround, so well done.

I think you should just be open and ask your mum 'ok, I'm nearly clear of my other debt, how would you like your 10k back?'. Just see what she says. If it's unreasonable, just say so and ask for a lower amount to be paid back each month. Done.

Offer to pay it back £200pm. It'll take 40 months, 3.5 years, and be done. You said you can afford £100pm comfortably so dig a bit deeper. I think this offer with a genuine thank you is more likely to lead to her writing it off than you trying to weasel out of it or stick your head in the sand tbh.

I agree with this - my mum and grandmother would both do the same and indeed my grandmother has done similar, and she's not remotely anywhere near as financially well-off as OP's mother.

What my grandmother did (and what I would do and also what I'm sure my mother would do) was to give the equivalent amount to the other siblings as a gift.

You've done amazingly to get yourself out of such a massive financial hole, OP, even if you did need a bit of help from your DM. I'm quite in awe!

Only you know how your DM might react to being asked for the loan to be reflected in her will, but I'm getting a slight sense that your sibling may be the Golden Child.

I think maybe when you've got a decent sized sum to repay, eg £500 or so, give her that and then ask her how she'd feel about knocking it off your inheritance. I certainly wouldn't mention how much your DSis has benefited financially, if she is the golden one, your DM isn't likely to respond well to the suggestion that she's been less than fair.

If I was as comfortably off as your mum, I'd write it off in a heartbeat.

She lent it to me with the agreement that one day if I’m ever sorted I would start to pay it back

That day has come.

I’ve got £2k left on a credit card and my car

No you have £2k on a credit card, £10,000 to your Mum and your car.

She spends money like it’s water though - she uses my email address for any large purchases she makes and for example she spent £8k on blinds for a really small conservatory a few months ago. The conservatory literally fits 2 small chairs and a cafe table in it, so why the blinds were £8k is beyond me

NONE of your business what she spends her money on.

I have managed to clear my debts purely through commission

No you have not, your are still £12,000 in debt. Just because you borrowed interest free from your mother does not mean you don't owe it. You would have owed a lot more had you borrowed it from somewhere else.

So for me to pay her back at the rate that I had been trying to clear my debts, it would mean that our lives are on hold for quite a bit longer

Then they are on hold a bit longer, you are only paying back what you actually took unlike the other debts you had.

Just do the right thing and pay her back. You were quick enough to take it in the first place and you had an agreement which you now want to renege on.

Once your other debts are cleared, I would pick a reasonable amount and start paying your mother monthly. Something that you can also afford also to be building some savings, but something. Tell her you know that this is a slow way to pay back the debt, but you wanted to pick a payment that was sustainable and you hope at some point to be in a position to make a lump sum payment and clear it entirely.

if she asks why aren’t making it higher then explain it is because you are placing an emphasis on financial planning and financial stability and that requires saving and thinking about housing that should be cheaper and more reliable than renting in the long-run.

What would I do?

I would start paying it back at £100 a month before she has chance to bring it up.

You haven't cleared yourself of debt because you've still got £10,000 owing.

She lent it to me with the agreement that one day if I’m ever sorted I would start to pay it back.

Now's the time, then.

Don't you feel anything about the fact you're trying to renege on the deal? Even if I didn't want to repay it, I still would otherwise I'd feel like a freeloader who had taken advantage of my mum's goodwill.

For all your criticisms of her, she wasn't the one asking for someone else's money.

Well done on clearing so much debt. I would be upset too at her asking for it back to be honest. She doesn't need it and it's not a huge amount.

You should pay her back ASAP

And solely pay for extra things such as streaming subscriptions, have updated all the bedrooms etc etc

Stop doing this and give your mom the money instead

I don't understand the 'it's not alot of money to your mum' argument. The money was borrowed and it should be returned. If mum says don't worry about it, that is her perogative but she hasn't - so do the right thing and pay it back.

It's tricky because in the circumstances your mum could afford to write it off easily and you've done really well to work your way out of debt and she should be proud. But I don't think you can ask for it expect that- only she can instigate it. In fact suggesting that to her may make her dig her heels in about wanting it back. I've sometimes Lent money in the past when asked (not any more and never anything like 10k!) and what often happened was no attempt to pay back and when I asked I was told I was mean and unreasonable to expect it. The feeling was that I could afford to lend it so i could afford not to have it repaid whereas it would put them out to have to find the money. Whilst that was true it made me feel that I had been asked for a "loan" when the recipient actually meant "a gift" which left a bit of a sour taste, like if been deliberately misled. Perhaps a middle road would be to say to your mum " by x month I should have cleared my other debt, I know I still owe you 10k and I'm grateful for it keeping me a float, but it would really help if you can wait a bit longer before I start repayments because it's going to be a bit tight otherwise". That might be her cue to write it off (or maybe not).

TBH I wouldn't respect anyone who lives very comfortably whilst their child and grandchildren rely on food banks 🤷‍♀️

If I were your mum, I'd be incredibly proud of you for getting yourself out of the awful position your ex left you in. I'd be thrilled that you've found someone who you can build a stable future with for you and the DC.

At the same time, I'd be mightily pissed of at you that you'd not made any mention or attempt to start repaying the loan. And furious that you claimyou are nearly debt free despite knowing I'd loaned you £10k.

I wouldn't have dreamed of taking any repayment, it would be completely written off. But your assumption of this would be something I'd struggle to forget.

I agree that if I were in your mum's position chances are I'd forgive the debt.
TBH I probably wouldn't have considered it a loan in the first place, but thought of it as 'a gift that might be repaid or might not', if that makes sense. But you don't know her thought processes or what it might be in her past that makes her feel she needs that money back.

I suggest you sit down with your mum and discuss the debt before she brings it up. You believe it's 'festering' with her and it's obviously heavily on your mind. Give her your propositions, listen to hers and then try to come to a meeting of the minds that works for both of you.

My parents were always very scrupulous as far as keeping money 'gifts' as equal as possible between my siblings and I. But money for emergencies or financial needs was on a case by case basis and none of us begrudged it to another because we knew that our parents would help us in the same way if need arose. If it never arose, we thanked God that we didn't experience the hard times a sibling went through.

Sounds like you have worked really hard and done amazingly to clear your debts.

I think that if I were your Mum, I would tell you to forget about the loan ( if I could afford to) BUT only if there wasn’t even the tiniest whiff of entitlement coming from you.

Entitled adult DC tend to be the ones who think they know all the ins and outs of their parents finances and exactly how much their siblings have received ….
beware of treading that path.

offer to give your mum £50 per month and be sure to tell her how grateful you are that she helped you out. And mean it.

Same.

Your mum's probably thinking that living with a partner has put you in a good enough financial position to now take responsibility for your actions.

She may also be mindful of the fact that if you don't pay it back, her money boosts your partner's financial well-being now you're sharing costs, and why would she want to do that?

It's perplexing isn't it. How can how much money someone be of any relevance when you've borrowed money from them? Presumable if her mum wasn't well off she wouldn't have been able to lend OP the money, and instead of being able to pay off other debts, she could well be in even more dire circumstances than previously.

I'd be embarrassed to not make the effort to pay it back.

I'd like to think if you were one of children and I'd helped out siblings with cars (like you said about your siblings) and I could afford it then I'd write the debt off. However there is also a part of me that thinks that it's important for children to learn about consequences and to sort themselves out of messes they get into (like perhaps thoroughly unsuitable partners/husbands). I'm going through a divorce. My parents could afford to help me out but have already said this is one mess I need to get myself out of. Especially when it comes to paying off debts that ex husband has accrued. Perhaps that's it? They think you are foolish for a) marrying the man and then b) somehow being saddled with his debt so she doesn't want was in effect your dads hard earned money to go towards your ex?

I don’t think anyone is saying don’t pay it back, I think the thing is, is that it’s all a bit Scrooge like isn’t it? Of course, we are all answering from our own perspectives and some of us would, if we had the money going spare, give it willingly without wanting repayment and some would treat it like a loan and expect repayments back. I’m firmly in the give it willingly and wouldn’t be asking for it back (if I could afford not to) but I know not everyone is like that (my own mother included).

It’s a tricky one. I’ve borrowed similar money from my mum but I made sure I paid it back and I don’t have kids. I was always brought up that nothing in life is free including money. In your situation it’s difficult. I agree your mum shouldn’t write it off and her background shouldn’t make a difference. She was clearly lucky that she never had to work but it doesn’t change anything. Your family and children come first so if I were you I would offer £25-£50 a month. Don’t put yourself in more debt for her. Can you do the more commission calls at work to help clear it like the others.

All these horrible comments about OPs DM really put me off ever lending money to family again, as it clearly just leads to resentment when the time comes to pay it back. We have given help over the years, but worry it enables a lack of responsibility sometimes.

There is no thought given to why DM has not given financial support in the past, but I would be very wary of enabling someone who has allowed someone else to take financial control as it could risk a loss of money again. People always seem to say that any financial gift should be no strings attached, but if the money is not used in a safe investment, it is easy to understand why DP might feel it could end up squandered. Perhaps that is why DM not as generous as she could be?

We do not know what OPs relationship is like with DM and how she has behaved towards her DM. All these factors might influence how generous she wishes to be with her own money.

It shows massive courage to get away from abusive ex and clear debts obviously. But why is there so much resentment towards DM. Surely it’s good she is managing her financial affairs well and not a burden. Her money will most likely come to OP when she dies but she may need care. We grew up with zero help from family and were taught to not lend or borrow money, but it sounds as though that is a deeply unpopular attitude now.

All these horrible comments about OPs DM really put me off ever lending money to family again, as it clearly just leads to resentment when the time comes to pay it back. We have given help over the years, but worry it enables a lack of responsibility sometimes.

Yup. I've had to stop to relatives because they automatically assume that because you're more comfortable than them (but by no means wealthy) they can take their time paying you back, or keep asking for more, or not pay you back at all.

That money is given to help at a time of crisis - because you need it more in that moment. That doesn't mean it's not needed elsewhere too.

I leant money to my sibling. They swore blind they'd pay it back ,that was 5 years ago and it's literally never been mentioned. I did ask last year and they said I clearly didn't need it back and they didn't have it. I'm really annoyed.