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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Borrowed money from my mum

669 replies

Finallyoutofthewoods · 03/03/2023 10:56

I know this thread will potentially get a lot of negative comments - please be kind

About 5 years ago I was in the worst financial position I had ever been in. Single parent, trying desperately to take on a mortgage alone after a family breakdown, in massive debt as I ended up saddled with the debt from my marriage as it had all been put in my name - anything we had done to our house, holidays, kids stuff, the lot had all gone in my name as my ex had a dreadful credit rating

My mum on the other hand is extremely financially well off - her house paid for in cash, she paid for her brand new car in cash, she receives the equivalent of a £60k salary in a private pension - my late fathers pension - as well as full state pension. My mum has not worked since she was in her early 20’s - I know Dad paid off her NI contributions so she would get full state pension. She has decent savings and literally doesn’t and never has had to worry about money. She spends money like it’s water though - she uses my email address for any large purchases she makes and for example she spent £8k on blinds for a really small conservatory a few months ago. The conservatory literally fits 2 small chairs and a cafe table in it, so why the blinds were £8k is beyond me.

5 years ago I asked if I could borrow £10k off her in an attempt to clear some of the debt so I would be able to cover the mortgage application to keep our family home. She lent it to me with the agreement that one day if I’m ever sorted I would start to pay it back

As it is, I ended up having to sell the property at a massive loss as I was just short on the mortgage amount and ended up taking on a further £12k credit card and loan debt to cover the mortgage shortfall, solicitors and estate agents fees - essentially wiping out the £10k that she had given me to help out.

I moved into a rented property and had around a total of £25k of credit card debt plus a £5k loan I had to take out to pay the mortgage shortfall off. Really struggled - had to feed my kids from a food bank. Lived an utterly miserable life truth be told and I honestly at my low points struggled to soldier on, especially through covid when I was furloughed and bringing in every less. She knew how low I was and at most, would pass me the odd £20 here and there.

I turned my life around 2 years ago through hard work. My debts are in a completely different place now - I’ve got £2k left on a credit card and my car - which I bought with a loan last year as had to have a decent ish car for work (sales job, car allowance and I cover around 20k miles+ per annum) I live with my new partner in his mortgaged house and pay towards that, we are hoping to buy a house together at some point but wont be doing until I actually have some savings to be able to pay towards the deposit

Anyway, I happened to mention to my mum that my debts were almost cleared and I could tell what she was thinking - that it was time to start paying the £10k back to her

Now I do appreciate that I did borrow this from her in good faith and she was so kind to help me out but Im finally at a stage where I can start to do things with my kids too as well as start a savings account. It’s like our lives have been on hold for over 5 years and she knows how much I’ve struggled. So for me to pay her back at the rate that I had been trying to clear my debts, it would mean that our lives are on hold for quite a bit longer

I have managed to clear my debts purely through commission I receive through my sales job - so it’s not guaranteed each month either. I’ve just worked hard and been lucky

I have considered asking if the debt could be factored into her will - so whatever the amount is, that my sibling would receive £10k more than me. Ive also considered proposing paying her back at a rate of £100 per month - equally I do feel like £100 is a drop in the ocean for her, she literally does not need it. I’m certainly not going to ignore the fact that the debt is there but I know she’s going to ask soon. What would you do?

OP posts:
TomatoSandwiches · 04/03/2023 12:21

*appalling attitude

TomatoSandwiches · 04/03/2023 12:31

NattyNamechanger · 04/03/2023 12:21

👏
You will get a bollocking for being " unpleasant"now though!😂

Show quote history

Fine by me, I'm not the one who owes anyone 10K! 😉

RosieRainbow1986 · 04/03/2023 12:32

I just wanted to start by saying we'll done OP - it sounds like you've had a really tough fee years but have turned it around! And I mean that sincerely! :-)

It's such a tricky one, because as a parent I would write it off if I could afford to. The difficult part is that you agreed it was a loan that would be repaid...maybe once you've cleared the last of the £2k, have a chat with your mum and work out what you can afford to pay back that would mean you can still enjoy and live life! You never know, she might suggest it coming out of whatever you inherit etc. But it sounds like it'll play on your mind so try and have that discussion sooner rather than later.

Good luck with it all :-)

Liorae · 04/03/2023 12:38

whittingtonmum · 04/03/2023 09:28

I would ignore it until she asks. When she asks I would ask if it can be mentioned in the will instead of you paying it back.

If she refuses I would suggest a very low amount £20 per month to pay it back.

I would avoid falling out with her as she might leave you out of her will altogether.

Obviously dreadful behaviour using your email address for luxury purchases when she knows things are difficult financially. She sounds terribly insensitive. I'd keep my distance but be polite enough so you still have a chance to inherit.

Obviously if she ever needs care, support with her health (hospital appointments) I would not lift a finger and let her struggle/sort herself out. I'd visit but not put myself out to support.

In the end you reap what you sow.

The OPs mum can change her will if OP decides to 'not lift a finger to help', as indeed she should. It sounds like you think OP should treat her mother as a potential source of inheritance and nothing else. In that case she should be prepared to be cut out, and probably will be.

ReadersD1gest · 04/03/2023 12:42

pantherrose · 04/03/2023 12:12

@ReadersD1gest

The OP has to have a car for work, why are you assuming it is a 'fancy' new car?

I don't know, really 😂. It was the "have to a have a decent ish car for work", I suppose.
A roadworthy car that gets you from A to B is all anyone actually needs, when it's not their own money that's financing it.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 04/03/2023 12:45

Excellent posts, ReadersD1gest, especially the bit concerning OP's posts about more being spent on things she doesn't even own

Another point nobody's picked up on is that, when asked about moving in with this latest man, OP said it had space/worked out for all the DCs and was near to their schools. Nothing about what a wonderful person he is or what a great future they hope to build, just this

For his sake, here's hoping he's not seen as just another provider ...

Liorae · 04/03/2023 12:45

DancingDaughter50 · 04/03/2023 10:49

Op does she pay anything towards your children!
I. Can't believe how mean people can be.

Our children did not ask to be made. We are responsible for them!!. It appals me, that someone so comfortable would allow their child and grandchild use a food bank.

Why should the grandparent be paying toward the OPs children? Why are you asking that instead of whether the waste of space OP chose to procreate with is paying toward his kids?

AnnieSnap · 04/03/2023 12:49

Littlepicker · 04/03/2023 08:47

What kind of grandmother is happy to let her daughter and grandchildren struggle to the point of using a food bank when she is sitting on a pot of cash?? I don’t understand? My mum and dad would give me their last penny, that’s unconditional love. I’m shocked at her attitude towards this 10k debt… I’d pay her back at the minimum amount per month. She doesn’t need it but you need to be independent as she clearly doesn’t have your back!

What attitude? The woman hasn’t said a word about the loan. This is all in the OP head and about her self-entitled attitude!

Puzzledandpissedoff · 04/03/2023 12:49

Reading this thread I can only come to the conclusion that the majority (not all) of people slamming the mother here have never been in the position to generously lend 10K and most likely are the types to take the piss out of friends and family "borrowing" money themselves. Or feel a grudge at not being offered cash gifts from people they think are better off and don't need it

You're not alone in that, TomatoSandwiches. As you say some of the entitlement's pretty distasteful, buut then there's a lot of it about so it's hardly surprising if some appears on here

Liorae · 04/03/2023 12:52

SingleMumofOne95 · 04/03/2023 11:16

@DancingDaughter50 Just stop using the OP’s past experiences as a reason as to why she shouldn’t pay her mum back after that was the original agreement. Her mum might write it off but OP hasn’t even spoken to her about it all so why are so many people on here assuming and demonising the mum? Also a lot of these people saying yeah I would give my child that money and not want it back probably hasn’t even got 10k in the bank to do so, so a bit rich commenting on someone else

Indeed. I notice it is usually the ones who couldn't do it anyway who advocate handling over everything they own to feckless offspring.

Barbecuebeans · 04/03/2023 12:52

coeurnoir · 04/03/2023 11:53

I wouldn't respect anyone who lives very comfortably whilst their child and grandchildren rely on food banks

This. I was once in the same position as the OP. I finally left my abusive ex husband after he nearly killed me by throwing me down the stairs. It was seen by our 4 year old and 1 year old.

He was financially abusive also in that he insisted that as soon as I was paid (I was working in the pharmaceutical industry so wasn't badly,off) I had to transfer almost all of my salary to him. It had been that way since we married when we were straight out of university at 21. I was only allowed to take 3 months mat leave each time as he wanted me back at work and earning. His mother looked after the kids.

When I left that marriage I was £40K in debt because he had taken out credit cards and loans in my name by forging my signature. I couldn't ever prove that however, so over the next few years I had to pay it all back. Some of the debt I only knew about when I found I had a CCJ.

It took me 10 years to rebuild my life. I even had to take a lower paid job because it was more family friendly than my previous one. I also met a new partner, now my husband and, like the OP I started living again.

There's a lot of judgement about OP and her debts. The fact of the matter is that it is fucking hard work climbing out of debt, with young children, and needing to feed and clothe them and provide adequate housing for them. It doesn't actually matter how the OP got into drbt, but I assume it is the sa,E way as I did. The abusive ex husband is the only villain in this story - as in mine - not the OP. She deserves respect now, not from random people on the Internet, but from her own family. An acknowledgment that she has fought her way out of a bad place. I would also argue that a woman who has done that, worked her arse off to do that, is more financially responsible than a woman who has not worked most of their adult life and now lives off her dead husbands pension.

Well done Coeurnoir. I have massive respect for you.

I agree with everything you say.

Daffodilsandbeer · 04/03/2023 12:52

I’m sure you would like tk feel financial freedom. You can do this when you pay all your debts inc to your mother.

Primrose97 · 04/03/2023 12:54

Dear OP you have done so well to get yourself back on your feet after such a difficult time, congratulations! I do think you are thinking you are psychic though, you are “reading your Mum’s mind” that she wants this money back and you don’t actually know that! Yes, absolutely have a talk with her but be honest and say it would be such a help to you if she could write the debt off or sort it via her will, but you will pay her back if that’s what she wants. My guess is she will let you off it, same as you would do for your kids. Talk to her! 💐

Barbecuebeans · 04/03/2023 12:59

Puzzledandpissedoff · 04/03/2023 12:49

Reading this thread I can only come to the conclusion that the majority (not all) of people slamming the mother here have never been in the position to generously lend 10K and most likely are the types to take the piss out of friends and family "borrowing" money themselves. Or feel a grudge at not being offered cash gifts from people they think are better off and don't need it

You're not alone in that, TomatoSandwiches. As you say some of the entitlement's pretty distasteful, buut then there's a lot of it about so it's hardly surprising if some appears on here

Made up nonsense. Absolutely no evidence for that contention whatsoeverAnd not true in my case, so the only evidence is against you. But I'm not at all surprised. All you fulminators like to make things up.

pastaandpesto · 04/03/2023 13:00

ReadersD1gest · 04/03/2023 12:42

I don't know, really 😂. It was the "have to a have a decent ish car for work", I suppose.
A roadworthy car that gets you from A to B is all anyone actually needs, when it's not their own money that's financing it.

Show quote history

But the OP does need a decent car for work. She is receiving a car allowance which will almost certainly mean that there will be an explicit expectation that her car is appropriate for business use and can reliably be driven 20K miles a year. DH has a car allowance and the T&Cs make certain conditions e.g. must be 4+ doors, must be of an appropriate quality for driving clients (not that he ever does). He doesn't have a flash car by any means but he is mandated to have a 'decent' car.

DancingDaughter50 · 04/03/2023 13:03

@Liorae because the op is speficically about her mum?

Surley it goes without saying the dad should be paying but I'm imagining after ops descriptions he won't be paying much?

coeurnoir · 04/03/2023 13:07

@ReadersD1gest when you're driving 20K miles a year for work then a cheap runaround for a couple thousand quid, just won't cut it. I was also in a job like that.
Besides the OP has said her car is paid for by her car allowance at work.

There is a lot of victim blaming on this thread. I do hope it's just posturing rather than how people really treat domestic violence survivors.

ReadersD1gest · 04/03/2023 13:17

DancingDaughter50 · 04/03/2023 13:03

@Liorae because the op is speficically about her mum?

Surley it goes without saying the dad should be paying but I'm imagining after ops descriptions he won't be paying much?

Well, it's specifically about £10k that op has borrowed from her Mum, which incidentally; her Mum has not actually chased for payment.
Op is just musing about how she can avoid it and start having holidays and building up her savings instead.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 04/03/2023 13:17

Made up nonsense. Absolutely no evidence for that contention whatsoeverAnd not true in my case, so the only evidence is against you. But I'm not at all surprised. All you fulminators like to make things up

My goodness, what an emotional post considering the PP was careful to write "not all" and I followed this up with two "somes"

None of us can know posters' every individual circumstance - including OP's - because we don't know each other; all we can do is go by what's presented, and maybe just occasionally the responses touch a nerve

ReadersD1gest · 04/03/2023 13:19

pastaandpesto · 04/03/2023 13:00

But the OP does need a decent car for work. She is receiving a car allowance which will almost certainly mean that there will be an explicit expectation that her car is appropriate for business use and can reliably be driven 20K miles a year. DH has a car allowance and the T&Cs make certain conditions e.g. must be 4+ doors, must be of an appropriate quality for driving clients (not that he ever does). He doesn't have a flash car by any means but he is mandated to have a 'decent' car.

Show quote history

Fair enough.

DancingDaughter50 · 04/03/2023 13:24

@ReadersD1gest.. I was asked why I wasn't mentioning the dad.

pantherrose · 04/03/2023 13:25

@NattyNamechanger

I have passed no comments on OP's mum, but I don't think it's unusual or unreasonable for parents to step in and help if the situation is urgent and it is within their means to do so.

I do agree that the rampant consumerism. easy money and ' throw away' culture of recent times has been extremely destructive leading to irresponsibility on every level, from consumers to lenders and policy makers in general.

In this case, there's little to suggest that OP 'scammed' her mum to get get what she wanted. As I read it, after her relationship collapsed, her financial situation was beyond desperate and she turned to Mum for help to pay urgent debts and stay afloat. I also think that people living in an abusive or manipulative relationships can often lose confidence and the ability to make level headed decisions after years of stress.

Whilst unwise perhaps to pay into a mortgage on a property that she has no legal interest in, nonetheless she is obliged to contribute and share costs whilst living with her partner in the same way that she would be paying a monthly rent if she were on her own, again with no asset to show for it.

Likewise, if her job requires a car, then I would consider that a necessity rather than a luxury in order that she can keep working.

Not everyone is gifted at managing money, particularly if there's not much to manage and I think there's a lot to be said for making room on the educational curriculum to teach children early about all aspects of financial management and responsibility.

Either way I don't think OP deserves the insults that have been slung at her, nor does she come across to me as being particularly greedy or entitled.

NattyNamechanger · 04/03/2023 13:38

pantherrose · 04/03/2023 13:25

@NattyNamechanger

I have passed no comments on OP's mum, but I don't think it's unusual or unreasonable for parents to step in and help if the situation is urgent and it is within their means to do so.

I do agree that the rampant consumerism. easy money and ' throw away' culture of recent times has been extremely destructive leading to irresponsibility on every level, from consumers to lenders and policy makers in general.

In this case, there's little to suggest that OP 'scammed' her mum to get get what she wanted. As I read it, after her relationship collapsed, her financial situation was beyond desperate and she turned to Mum for help to pay urgent debts and stay afloat. I also think that people living in an abusive or manipulative relationships can often lose confidence and the ability to make level headed decisions after years of stress.

Whilst unwise perhaps to pay into a mortgage on a property that she has no legal interest in, nonetheless she is obliged to contribute and share costs whilst living with her partner in the same way that she would be paying a monthly rent if she were on her own, again with no asset to show for it.

Likewise, if her job requires a car, then I would consider that a necessity rather than a luxury in order that she can keep working.

Not everyone is gifted at managing money, particularly if there's not much to manage and I think there's a lot to be said for making room on the educational curriculum to teach children early about all aspects of financial management and responsibility.

Either way I don't think OP deserves the insults that have been slung at her, nor does she come across to me as being particularly greedy or entitled.

Well we are all different !
I totally agree on the comments about rampant consumerism and how DV might have affected the OP but and its a big BUT

The Ops attitude is entitled, she's showing the same attitude regarding money as she did when she racked up debt for holidays and kids stuff.
To say her DM is wrong to spend 8K of her own money on conservatory blinds -always expensive but a home improvement, whilst expecting10K to be written off so the Op can go on holidays and have expensive meals out is just jaw dropping entitlement!
Presumably Ops DM is elderly?
You think it's not entitled to have the above attitude?
Holy hell!

Crazyindiechick · 04/03/2023 14:03

I have a MIL who only worked 5 years and gets a full state pension because my FIL worked his butt off and she was a stay at home mum, he topped up her NI too. Thinking of her it might be your DM doesn't really have any idea about working for money, even if your dad worked hard, I don't think she probably gets exactly what's involved.It's come easy to her So you might just need to be a kind to her and be the bigger person. I get the judgemental bit completely, after all your taxes are paying her state pension. I would try and offer her something each month even if it's only a small bit.
You've done so well - be proud of yourself and I do wonder what the average age of all the ones knocking you here are? Do they have any idea how hard you will have had to have to worked.

Liorae · 04/03/2023 14:08

Time to tell all the current sahms how they are leeches off their hardworking husband's rather than "facilitating them to become high earners". Giant double standards.