Page 23 | To have refused to get out of my car for the police in the middle of the night?

AngeloMysterioso · 2023-03-02T17:05:41+00:00

Was driving home from work at just after 2 a.m last night when I was pulled over by a pair of male coppers in a squad car after I swerved in the road to avoid a pothole. I stopped, lowered my window a crack and then turned the engine off and made sure all the doors were locked. They both got out of the car and came over, asked about where I was going, where I’d been etc etc and then asked about the swerve- I explained about the pothole, and that I didn’t consider the move to have been dangerous as there were no other vehicles or anywhere near me (they had been some distance in front of me at the time and on the other side of the road but there was absolutely no chance of a collision) and no pedestrians anywhere around. Then they asked if I would get out of the car and take a breathalyser test. I refused- I said I’d happily drive to the police station (maybe a mile- mile and a half away) and take a breathalyser there, but that I didn’t feel safe getting out of my car and being alone with two massive blokes in the middle of the night with no other people around, and them being in a uniform didn’t change that for me. They asked a few more questions about my work, if they needed to would anyone be able to verify that I’d been working, gave me a lecture about driving safely and in the end let me go home with no further action taken - but I’ve just had a phonecall from another police officer basically telling me off for not just doing as I was told. Was I BU?

Isittimeformynapyet · 02/03/2023 23:06

Nocutenamesleft · 02/03/2023 18:04

Absolutely in the right

ehen I was 11 my mum parked on double yellow lines (wrong I know!) she left me in the car to go get some food for 5-7 mins really. During that time 2 plain clothed officers came over and tried to get me to get out of the car. I wouldn’t open my door and they started hammering with their batons and trying to break the car window. I was obviously terrified that I was going to get kidnapped! My father was an actual police officer and had told me to never open the door if I was alone

they actually got into real trouble at the time because they didn’t show me identification or even tell me their names. Just tried to force me out of the car. Remember they weren’t in uniform so I just thought it was random men. They told me they were police but they just went a bit nuts!

since then I would get out in the middle of the night on my own.

🤔

ArabellaScott · 02/03/2023 23:06

Novatherova · 02/03/2023 22:59

Going by the comments its hatred mistrust.

I'm interested in the hatred bit.

All think of this. I hope to god one day you don't need help from a Policeman and if you do then you get help quickly.

If you don't get help quickly they may just be caught up with the 2am query drunk driver arguing back at them.

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As I've said, berating women for being afraid of the police is not how to win back public trust.

And the 2am driver in this post 1. wasn't drunk and 2. wasn't arguing back at them.

Rosscameasdoody · 02/03/2023 23:08

ArabellaScott · 02/03/2023 22:52

www.itv.com/news/2023-02-08/culture-of-misogyny-endemic-in-british-policing-itv-exposure-uncovers

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/nov/02/prevalent-predatory-misogynistic-culture-in-police-official-report-finds

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/police-trust-women-violence-met-b2270766.html

www.politicshome.com/news/article/misogyny-sexism-and-predatory-behaviour-still-prevalent-in-many-forces-warns-police-watchdog-

'The independent inspectorate of Constabulary and Fire & Rescue Services (HMICFRS) have warned that a culture of misogyny, sexism and predatory behaviour towards members of the public and female colleagues persists across many UK police forces today.'

'More than 40 per cent of British people no longer trust the police amid an avalanche of scandals over police misogyny and sexual violence.'

etc

You'd be very mistaken if you write this off as 'hatred' or 'dislike'. Or if you presume that women on Mumsnet are not representative, broadly, of the general public.

We need a police force that we can broadly trust and rely on. We need more police, police need more support and training, and most of all we need the police force to face the issues.

Browbeating women and telling them their fears are stupid or that they're wrong or hateful won't work.

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Nope. And neither will advocating civil disobedience.

Rosscameasdoody · 02/03/2023 23:09

ArabellaScott · 02/03/2023 23:06

As I've said, berating women for being afraid of the police is not how to win back public trust.

And the 2am driver in this post 1. wasn't drunk and 2. wasn't arguing back at them.

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So refusing to get out of the vehicle to take a breath test isn’t arguing back ?

Hoolihan · 02/03/2023 23:09

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Yes just IMAGINE if the police were prejudiced against certain groups of people!! PMSL.

CuteOrangeElephant · 02/03/2023 23:10

ThereIbledit · 02/03/2023 21:01

It's an interesting one isn't it. I don't think you were BU and I don't think they were - but this thread just shows the landscape is changing WRT trust between women and the police.

FWIW I've been breathalysed once (and nearly a second time but I must have been convincing 😆) and I did it without leaving the car. They kept hold of the device and I blew into it (totally clear if anybody was wondering, I was one of those seemingly rare people who was actually commuting home from a long day at work rather than having been out on the town on a Saturday night before Xmas!)

My favourite breathalyser story is the unlikely one of a dear friend who I can't remember how she ended up being stopped talking to the police but the policeman accused her of drinking because he thought he could smell alcohol on her breath. She hadn't, and the test proved that, and he asked her what she HAD been eating or drinking that may have caused the smell. She thought carefully for a moment before saying she'd eaten a custard creme before setting off, and he excitedly shouted that that was exactly what he could smell! What alcoholic drink a custard creme smells like I'd love to know 😂

Advocaat 😄

SpyouttheLand · 02/03/2023 23:11

She wasn't drunk and that will have been obvious as soon as they spoke to her or they wouldn't have let her drive off.

It was right that she was stopped if her driving was erratic. It was right that she wasn't forced to get out of the car in the middle of the night once it was clear there was no risk to the wider public.

LeonardBobby · 02/03/2023 23:12

Out of interest, how do you think this would work? How would the police be able to see whether the car in front of them - in the dark with headlights shining towards them - contained a lone woman or not?

RedDeath614 · 02/03/2023 23:14

Fizzadora · 02/03/2023 17:12

A genuine badge number doesn't mean you are safe though does it.
If I were you @AngeloMysterioso I would be contacting the chief constable to find out why you were taken to task on the phone for protecting yourself.

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Absolutely agree with Fizzadora.
Firstly OP you're a star for not simply going along with what they wanted you to do, and for offering alternatives to them. They could have let you stay in the car and do the breathalyser, but they clearly didn't share your concern for your own personal safety. Why not? Aren't the police there to protect us? Or are they there to bully us for their own enjoyment?

OP you should call the police back and make a strong and formal complaint about this. The way you were treated by all of them enforces the dangerous message that all lone women should unquestioningly comply with policemen's requests. They clearly couldn't give a toss about a lone woman's safety. Why? And have they been living under a rock? Considering the nature of some male officers, it wouldn't surprise me if they have.

JemimaTiggywinkles · 02/03/2023 23:14

So refusing to get out of the vehicle to take a breath test isn’t arguing back ?

Saying that you feel unsafe and offering a safer alternative really isn’t arguing back. Unless, of course, you think the public should just obey your every command, regardless of their own well-being?

banbonbon · 02/03/2023 23:14

@CarrieBsWardrobe

In answer to your question:

Police officers are not killed on a regular basis (maybe in other countries but not the UK)

There is already demonstrable evidence that the police "do not trust" a whole lot of people hence protest sre stop and search.

You can outline a raft of horrendous cases - this is not Top Trumps - many on this thread work in the areas you mention - child abuse, social services, domestic violence etc...

I do not need or want to join specials to see what I already know about - I would never join the police as I do not respect their values or see anything in their behavior that would want me to be in their "ranks"

I know individual special constables and officers who are decent human beings - I know their job is hard but the trust is being eroded and has been for a long time. The "bad apples" make their life hard but that said they need to stand-up for themselves and others.

This is not a race to the bottom - there are very many other jobs and careers that are equally soul-destroying - the police do not need special attention

Lou670 · 02/03/2023 23:14

@gold22 Any good cop would know if a person was under the influence without the need of a breathalyser to confirm it. They would smell it first. The op had her window down. A car can swerve for a number of reasons such as a punctured tyre, swerving to avoid an animal, steering rack snaps. They also must have swerved to avoid hitting the pothole? Of course suspected drink drivers need to be stopped but they shouldn't automatically jump to the conclusion that the driver is intoxicated. They knew she wasn't as they let her go and did not insist on any further action.

CarrieBsWardrobe · 02/03/2023 23:15

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Rosscameasdoody · 02/03/2023 23:16

Lou670 · 02/03/2023 23:01

@Rosscameasdoody And some of us are just trying to get home after a long day and work unsociable hours. 'Some' as in not all. 'Most' also as in not all. Lots of people are stopped for drink driving during daylight hours. I wouldn't say 'most' people on the road at 2am are up to no good. Most are legitimately driving for other reasons other than being intoxicated. The police just automatically think the worse and conveniently forget that there are other shift workers apart from them.

At no point did I say ‘most’ people on the road at 2am are up to no good - I said ‘some’ people were. And in this case, the police didn’t automatically think the worst, they saw a reason to stop the OP - she swerved. So is what you’re saying that it’s not OK for the police to stop someone if they see erratic behaviour - they should let them carry on and perhaps kill or injure someone further along the journey ?

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 02/03/2023 23:17

People need to disabuse themselves of this idea that when you are stopped by the police you are in a negotiable position. You are not.

sjxoxo · 02/03/2023 23:17

I’d have been nervous aswell. I don’t know if Id have had the guts to refuse but I think you did the right thing.. legally I don’t know if you can refuse though…? Does anyone know if you can ask to drive to the station in this type of circumstance? X

Lou670 · 02/03/2023 23:19

@Rosscameasdoody As I said in another post a good cop would know if that person had been drinking. They let her go with no further action. Yes they are right in stopping people as they see fit alas they need to respect rightly or wrongly the fear that women now have as a result of one of their own.

Motnight · 02/03/2023 23:21

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To be fair, the ways that police forces work have been made perfectly clear in recent court cases and media reports, in the rape and murder of women, the abuse of power, the way victims are viewed and spoken about etc. It is all out there for us to see without the need to volunteer.

MissMaple82 · 02/03/2023 23:21

You don't have to get out to do a breathalyser so YANBU

Rosscameasdoody · 02/03/2023 23:21

Lou670 · 02/03/2023 23:14

@gold22 Any good cop would know if a person was under the influence without the need of a breathalyser to confirm it. They would smell it first. The op had her window down. A car can swerve for a number of reasons such as a punctured tyre, swerving to avoid an animal, steering rack snaps. They also must have swerved to avoid hitting the pothole? Of course suspected drink drivers need to be stopped but they shouldn't automatically jump to the conclusion that the driver is intoxicated. They knew she wasn't as they let her go and did not insist on any further action.

As I understood it, the police car was on the other side of the road, so wouldn’t have had to take action to avoid the pothole. And a driver can be intoxicated for a number of reasons - if it’s drugs they wouldn’t smell it would they, but talking to the person would determine whether they appeared intoxicated by whatever substance. A car being driven erratically at 2am is absolutely a reason to stop them - or would you prefer that they just ignore it until they’re called to the accident that could have been prevented if they hadn’t ?

Lou670 · 02/03/2023 23:23

@Rosscameasdoody But the discussion is about, not whether she should have been stopped or not. It was about her having to get out of the car. I would not have got out of my car in that situation.

Rosscameasdoody · 02/03/2023 23:23

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 02/03/2023 23:17

People need to disabuse themselves of this idea that when you are stopped by the police you are in a negotiable position. You are not.

That’s exactly what most posters on here appear to think. If the opinions here are anything to go by I see trouble ahead.

gold22 · 02/03/2023 23:24

Lou670 · 02/03/2023 23:14

@gold22 Any good cop would know if a person was under the influence without the need of a breathalyser to confirm it. They would smell it first. The op had her window down. A car can swerve for a number of reasons such as a punctured tyre, swerving to avoid an animal, steering rack snaps. They also must have swerved to avoid hitting the pothole? Of course suspected drink drivers need to be stopped but they shouldn't automatically jump to the conclusion that the driver is intoxicated. They knew she wasn't as they let her go and did not insist on any further action.

Wasn't your original point about people being stopped in the early hours and that the police just assume most people are doing wrong at that time?

Also, just so you're aware, you can be over the limit without being drunk and without drinking enough to stink of alcohol.

I haven't stated anywhere that the police should have pushed for the breathalyser, I've actually said previously that it sounds like they didn't have enough suspicion, hence letting her go.

AuroraRocks · 02/03/2023 23:24

I think you did the right thing.

I’ve only ever had two dealings with the police and they were both unsavoury and shattered my previously naive attitude that they are there to uphold the law.

First situation they interviewed me illegally (I was 14 and no other adult present) to basically try to persuade me to say my friend had committed an illegal offence. My friend had been sat in my living room watching a film with me at the time! They stated that my friend (who had been arrested) has already admitted doing it which baffled me - if that was the case why were they hassling me?

Second situation - they did an illegal stop and search of my husband (who surprise surprise is not white and a “foreigner”). He was not savvy enough to clock their names/numbers. When I complained they denied all knowledge- said it couldn’t have happened!

So to summarise - I don’t trust the police based on my own personal experiences never mind the horrific news stories of late!

Rosscameasdoody · 02/03/2023 23:26

JemimaTiggywinkles · 02/03/2023 23:14

So refusing to get out of the vehicle to take a breath test isn’t arguing back ?

Saying that you feel unsafe and offering a safer alternative really isn’t arguing back. Unless, of course, you think the public should just obey your every command, regardless of their own well-being?

Her ‘safer alternative’ was to drive to the nearest police station - whilst under suspicion for drink driving !!