Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To have refused to get out of my car for the police in the middle of the night?

871 replies

AngeloMysterioso · 02/03/2023 17:05

Was driving home from work at just after 2 a.m last night when I was pulled over by a pair of male coppers in a squad car after I swerved in the road to avoid a pothole.

I stopped, lowered my window a crack and then turned the engine off and made sure all the doors were locked. They both got out of the car and came over, asked about where I was going, where I’d been etc etc and then asked about the swerve- I explained about the pothole, and that I didn’t consider the move to have been dangerous as there were no other vehicles or anywhere near me (they had been some distance in front of me at the time and on the other side of the road but there was absolutely no chance of a collision) and no pedestrians anywhere around.
Then they asked if I would get out of the car and take a breathalyser test. I refused- I said I’d happily drive to the police station (maybe a mile- mile and a half away) and take a breathalyser there, but that I didn’t feel safe getting out of my car and being alone with two massive blokes in the middle of the night with no other people around, and them being in a uniform didn’t change that for me.

They asked a few more questions about my work, if they needed to would anyone be able to verify that I’d been working, gave me a lecture about driving safely and in the end let me go home with no further action taken - but I’ve just had a phonecall from another police officer basically telling me off for not just doing as I was told.

Was I BU?

OP posts:
Survey99 · 02/03/2023 21:34

Threee · 02/03/2023 20:44

A fine and some points or risk getting raped, the choice is quite straight forward.

Show quote history

Jeez, talk about over reaction. Your risk of being raped by two police officers in the uk, in uniform, obviously on duty, in a marked squad car is miniscule. Probably much much lower than the risk is being raped by someone you already know. Some people are seriously just abusing a couple of horrific incidents to entice anarchy and it is harmful.

OMG12 · 02/03/2023 21:34

ArabellaScott · 02/03/2023 21:30

YANBU, OP. I think you were sensible.

Here's the relevant law:

'If you refuse to take a breath test, or fail to supply a sample of breath and do not have a ‘reasonable excuse’, you can be arrested. A reasonable excuse could be a genuine physical or mental condition stopping you from giving a sample.'

www.gov.uk/stopped-by-police-while-driving-your-rights/breath-tests

So could have been arrested then.

gold22 · 02/03/2023 21:34

Runningonempty01 · 02/03/2023 20:41

Maybe recruit no male officers until there are enough women in the police for every male officer to be partnered by a woman? ( only half joking)

You have no clue

Vlunken · 02/03/2023 21:36

I wouldn't have got out of my car. I'd have rung dh, taken their photos and sent them to dh, then taken the breathalyser in the car.

OMG12 · 02/03/2023 21:37

TerribleInsomniac · 02/03/2023 21:12

I have often wondered what to do in this sort of situation.
I wouldn’t allow them in my house either.
You did the right thing.
Its good to hear they allowed you on your way.
They could be anyone, uniform, id mean nothing these days

…and the police car? Where had that come from? Carsupermarket?

Rosscameasdoody · 02/03/2023 21:40

Murdoch1949 · 02/03/2023 20:45

You offered to go to the police station, that's complying with them. With what police officers have been caught doing recently no-one should get out of their car at night!

If they suspect her of drink driving and she won’t get out of the car, how is she supposed to get to the police station, given that they can’t let her drive if they suspect she’s unfit to do so ?

OMG12 · 02/03/2023 21:42

Survey99 · 02/03/2023 21:34

Jeez, talk about over reaction. Your risk of being raped by two police officers in the uk, in uniform, obviously on duty, in a marked squad car is miniscule. Probably much much lower than the risk is being raped by someone you already know. Some people are seriously just abusing a couple of horrific incidents to entice anarchy and it is harmful.

Show quote history

This, absolutely this. And then the same people complain police don’t arrive promptly when their shed gets broken into (problem because they’re dealing with some driver refusing to give a breath test). Some nights the number of officers dealing with 999 calls in a city can be in single figures. Having to deal with people like some of those on here who like to stir up the all police are evil rhetoric are the ones putting people at the most risk. It really doesn’t take a lot to think that through!

hellywelly3 · 02/03/2023 21:43

I few years ago I would have thought yabu but I’ve lost my faith a little in the police after all the recent events. So yanbu

OMG12 · 02/03/2023 21:44

Vlunken · 02/03/2023 21:36

I wouldn't have got out of my car. I'd have rung dh, taken their photos and sent them to dh, then taken the breathalyser in the car.

So they just hand over a sensitive piece of equipment worth thousands to some suspected drunk driver?🤦‍♀️

Vlunken · 02/03/2023 21:45

OMG12 · 02/03/2023 21:44

So they just hand over a sensitive piece of equipment worth thousands to some suspected drunk driver?🤦‍♀️

Show quote history

Yes.

They had no reason to suspect she was drunk and I expect it was obvious that she wasn't anyway.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 02/03/2023 21:46

ArabellaScott · 02/03/2023 21:30

YANBU, OP. I think you were sensible.

Here's the relevant law:

'If you refuse to take a breath test, or fail to supply a sample of breath and do not have a ‘reasonable excuse’, you can be arrested. A reasonable excuse could be a genuine physical or mental condition stopping you from giving a sample.'

www.gov.uk/stopped-by-police-while-driving-your-rights/breath-tests

It's what the Law recognises as reasonable though - not what you or I might think is reasonable.

The law does not recognise fear of the police as reasonable grounds for non-compliance with their instructions - if it did, any criminal caught in the act could just say they were too scared to stop and leg it.

There is shit-tonne of terrible advice on this thread. Never refuse to take a breathalyser test if you are sober (and don't drive if you aren't, obviously). There is a strong chance of losing your licence and being fined, and a small chance of going to prison.

FOJN · 02/03/2023 21:49

Rosscameasdoody · 02/03/2023 21:18

It’s not a choice and not trusting the police is not a reason not to comply. They had reasonable suspicion of driving under the influence because the OP swerved. Had they decided she needed to be breathalysed and she had continued to refuse to engage, she would have been arrested for failing to provide a sample. The police can’t allow her to drive to the nearest police station to give a sample if they suspect she isn’t fit to do so. What happens if everyone does this ? There would be chaos - you can’t just refuse because you’re a lone woman.

Show quote history

The OP did not refuse to be breathalysed. She refused to get out of her car to do it. There are clearly good reasons why the police would not permit someone they suspected of drink driving to drive to a police station but they could have called for a female police officer or breathalysed OP inside her car. They clearly did not think she had been drinking or they would not have let her drive away.

Not trusting the police is a perfectly good reason to refuse to get out of the car. The problem has been created by the police, they need to fix it rather than reprimanding women for being suspicious of them. They could start by dealing with the violent abusers in their ranks, not tolerating grossly inappropriate WhatsApp groups, suspending officers when they are being investigated for sexual offences and not thinking it's funny to nickname a colleague "the rapist".

If Wayne Couzens had been suspended and had his police ID (and handcuffs) removed when he was being investigated for indecent exposure then Sarah Everard may still be alive today.

The police need to get their own house in order if they want to police with any authority.

Rosscameasdoody · 02/03/2023 21:53

Leftbutcameback · 02/03/2023 19:26

You did the right thing, they should have taken you up on your offer to drive to the station. That would have been sensible on their part. As they didn’t no reason to “tell you off” 🤔

No it wouldn’t have been ‘sensible’. She was suspected of driving under the influence and at that point refusing to give a breath test. Why would you even think they would allow her to drive anywhere until they were satisfied she hadn’t been drinking ?

ArabellaScott · 02/03/2023 21:54

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 02/03/2023 21:46

It's what the Law recognises as reasonable though - not what you or I might think is reasonable.

The law does not recognise fear of the police as reasonable grounds for non-compliance with their instructions - if it did, any criminal caught in the act could just say they were too scared to stop and leg it.

There is shit-tonne of terrible advice on this thread. Never refuse to take a breathalyser test if you are sober (and don't drive if you aren't, obviously). There is a strong chance of losing your licence and being fined, and a small chance of going to prison.

Show quote history

Yes, I quoted the fucking law. JFC.

Lou670 · 02/03/2023 21:56

You did the right thing. After the Wayne Couzens incident, you can if a lone woman insist on a female officer to be present. You can refuse the breathalyser test and they could if they wanted to ask you to take a blood test at the station.

The police should understand that women now have to be cautious. Yes it was one man but the trouble is we now don't know which one it could be. Sad state of affairs but the behaviour of that man has now lost all trust in the police.

Gilmorehill · 02/03/2023 21:58

Toffeecat2019 · 02/03/2023 20:53

Formal complaint. They didn’t do anything wrong!!!! FFS what nonsense

Well they wanted to breathlyse her. If they genuinely thought she was, they had to follow it through. They didn’t which makes them look bad.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 02/03/2023 21:58

The OP did not refuse to be breathalysed. She refused to get out of her car to do it

From the OP: Then they asked if I would get out of the car and take a breathalyser test. I refused - I said I’d happily drive to the police station (maybe a mile- mile and a half away) and take a breathalyser there

She did refuse. She didn't say, "I will take the test here, but I won't get out of the car". It may well be that this didn't occur to her - I'm not blaming her: I've been pulled over by the police at 2 in the morning, and it freaks you out, even when you have done nothing wrong.

I totally get why she acted as she did, but she was lucky not to have got into more trouble.

OMG12 · 02/03/2023 21:59

As of November 118 of the 36,000 officers in the Met were on resisted duties pending investigation for sexual assault around 0.3%. Still more than anyone would want but it really doesn’t warrant the type of reaction here.

Vlunken · 02/03/2023 22:00

"The police officer has reasonable cause to suspect that you have committed, or are currently committing, a moving traffic offence;
Having stopped them, an officer has reasonable cause to suspect that the person driving/attempting to drive/in charge of the vehicle has consumed alcohol;
The police officer has reasonable cause to believe that you were the person driving/attempting to drive/in charge of a motor vehicle, which was involved in an accident.
This means that the police cannot simply stop you at any time and insist on a breath test. They are entitled to randomly stop your car, but they can only insist on a breath test in one of the cases described above"

I can't see how swerving to avoid a pothole fits any of the three reasons to demand a breath test.

Rosscameasdoody · 02/03/2023 22:01

FOJN · 02/03/2023 21:49

The OP did not refuse to be breathalysed. She refused to get out of her car to do it. There are clearly good reasons why the police would not permit someone they suspected of drink driving to drive to a police station but they could have called for a female police officer or breathalysed OP inside her car. They clearly did not think she had been drinking or they would not have let her drive away.

Not trusting the police is a perfectly good reason to refuse to get out of the car. The problem has been created by the police, they need to fix it rather than reprimanding women for being suspicious of them. They could start by dealing with the violent abusers in their ranks, not tolerating grossly inappropriate WhatsApp groups, suspending officers when they are being investigated for sexual offences and not thinking it's funny to nickname a colleague "the rapist".

If Wayne Couzens had been suspended and had his police ID (and handcuffs) removed when he was being investigated for indecent exposure then Sarah Everard may still be alive today.

The police need to get their own house in order if they want to police with any authority.

Show quote history

As others have pointed out, offering to drive to the nearest police station doesn’t cut it. And I was under the impression that the police can request you step out of the vehicle to take the breathalyser if the circumstances dictate, so that they can verify it hasn’t been tampered with or used incorrectly - difficult to do if the driver won’t get out of the car. There’s some dreadful advice on this thread - refusing to comply with the police because of fear, isn’t recognised by the law, so you can’t use it as a defence. So if the OP had continued to refuse to exit the car in the event that they had pursued it, it would have ended very differently. A lot of what’s being suggested on here is just not viable, and borders on anarchy. You only have to google or look at what’s being uploaded on YouTube to see what’s going on in the USA for similar reasons to see where we’re headed.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 02/03/2023 22:02

ArabellaScott · 02/03/2023 21:54

Yes, I quoted the fucking law. JFC.

Show quote history

Quoting it is not the same as understanding it. Swearing definitely makes you seem more knowledgeable about jurisprudence tho.

Rosscameasdoody · 02/03/2023 22:03

Vlunken · 02/03/2023 22:00

"The police officer has reasonable cause to suspect that you have committed, or are currently committing, a moving traffic offence;
Having stopped them, an officer has reasonable cause to suspect that the person driving/attempting to drive/in charge of the vehicle has consumed alcohol;
The police officer has reasonable cause to believe that you were the person driving/attempting to drive/in charge of a motor vehicle, which was involved in an accident.
This means that the police cannot simply stop you at any time and insist on a breath test. They are entitled to randomly stop your car, but they can only insist on a breath test in one of the cases described above"

I can't see how swerving to avoid a pothole fits any of the three reasons to demand a breath test.

Depends on the road conditions at the time, and how the swerve was executed. And in this case they accepted the OP’s reasoning - presumably because they could verify the pothole.

FiddleLeaf · 02/03/2023 22:04

Good for you OP.

I would have felt safe a few years ago but so much has come to light recently.

Icantakemyselfdancing · 02/03/2023 22:04

Today after all we know, absolutely the correct decision made. Well done .

Nowthenhere · 02/03/2023 22:05

Probably wouldn't have stopped myself. You were very brave.
I would likely flashed/acknowledged their presence and met them at a police station.