To think ‘the system is broken’ but…

[Blinddatez]

We are also breaking the system.

From reading posts on here, it seems a lot of people don’t realise just how little we actually contribute to ‘the system’, how much things cost to implement, and therefore what level of service we can realistically expect from healthcare, education and so on.

40% of people are net recipients (they receive more from the state than they put in), but that doesn’t include pensioners. Yet the expectations on here of what should be provided by the state seem to be sky high - generous benefits, good quality but cheap housing for everyone, a 5* NHS, immediate and thorough mental health support, good pensions even for people who have never worked for dubious reasons.

AIBU to think, while the money could be better spent than it is right now, the expectation of what should be provided by the state on here is a bit head-in-the-clouds?

No, it's often about working smarter and getting more out of doing fewer hours. But the point is that employers don't always see it that way and encourage presenteeism.

Then that 40% figure needs to drop, benefits should be only for people that really need them, should not be for life unless you have a an impediment/disability, is not the tax payers fault you want to have kids and only work part time...or that you can't afford housing... We can all have a bad patch and is good the benefits system is there, but why should people get subsided housing for life, uniforms and school meals for free for years, vouchers when kids are on holiday, whilst others have to work for it and still scrape by? Unfortunately service cuts affect mostly to those that are contributing..i.e. teachers strikes affect full time working parents more because of all the disruption...

I don't see people wanting a fantastic quality of life for nothing. But I think everyone working full time (which should be fewer hours than it currently is) should be able to afford more than just the basics, and have some enjoyment and pleasure in their lives.

And it is completely, not just morally wrong, but economically wrong that people are working all the hours and are still having to choose between paying the gas bill or eating.

I also think we should look after those who are unable to work through the welfare state and they should also have a good quality of life.

If this is entitlement, then I'm happy to be called entitled.

High rise building could help with this

But people that work full time and contribute more than they take from the system still have to pay mortgages- really high ones btw, where banks are making a profit, and this is after getting heavily taxed...that's how capitalism work...

Bravo. This isn't the middle aged. Nobody who works full time should have to use food banks. There's something very wrong about that.
The money is there...it's just all sitting at the top.
I read recently that Jeff Bezos (whose workers have to piss in bottles because they don't get proper breaks) could give his workers $85000 each and he'd still have more money than before the pandemic. How much is enough for these people?

I'm not sure that's true at the moment. The number of unfilled jobs in the UK at the moment is huge, since we sent all of the Europeans home.
Maybe it'll be a seller's market for a while.

Exactly. I'd much rather have "some jobsworth" at the local authority meticulously checking the water PFAS levels than what seems to be going on with water quality recently.

No, it's often about working smarter and getting more out of doing fewer hours. But the point is that employers don't always see it that way and encourage presenteeism.

It's not primarily driven by that either. It's about developing high margin industries and creating an environment where businesses can invest in technology so that people aren't wasting time doing mundane, low value jobs that can be automated.

Why do you think mundane jobs are always the low paid ones? And therefore can be automated?

It’s very clear that many low paid jobs aren’t necessarily the ones that could be automated.

Why do you think mundane jobs are always the low paid ones? And therefore can be automated?

I didn't say mundane jobs are always the low paid ones.

It’s very clear that many low paid jobs aren’t necessarily the ones that could be automated.

Some are, some aren't. The point is that investment in automation and higher tech industries creates more value per hour. Therefore if we do more of those things, overall productivity in the economy increases, and therefore there is more money available for salary rises and public services. We need to make the UK an investable proposition again for this to happen. That means investment in infrastructure and education, as both are woeful. It also means removing completely illogical bottlenecks in the tax system so that it's worthwhile for people to upskill and progress their careers without being massively penalised by tax, and rejoining the single market and customs union.