To think ‘the system is broken’ but…

[Blinddatez]

We are also breaking the system.

From reading posts on here, it seems a lot of people don’t realise just how little we actually contribute to ‘the system’, how much things cost to implement, and therefore what level of service we can realistically expect from healthcare, education and so on.

40% of people are net recipients (they receive more from the state than they put in), but that doesn’t include pensioners. Yet the expectations on here of what should be provided by the state seem to be sky high - generous benefits, good quality but cheap housing for everyone, a 5* NHS, immediate and thorough mental health support, good pensions even for people who have never worked for dubious reasons.

AIBU to think, while the money could be better spent than it is right now, the expectation of what should be provided by the state on here is a bit head-in-the-clouds?

Oh

Look at the House of Lords if you want to get rid of 'lifelong benefits'. Or some of the minor royals perhaps. Or ongoing tax evaders.

Tax evasion is a far bigger problem. The investigative resources going into long term benefits claimants are huge, while tax evasion by the rich is pretty much ignored.

@Believeitornot

Any amount given could be spent elsewhere and it's not just physical money that drains the system also consider the costs of the various bodies dealing with these ferals , police , social workers , probation, councils etc .
The costs of these people far outweigh anything they contribute .
They cause nothing but misery and live outside the norms of a functioning society .

Latest research shows one thing really affecting UK recovery/productivity is the declining health of the nation, caused by the Tories decision to underfund the NHS.

Unaffordable healthcare and transport don't bloody help, it costs a fortune to work in this country. Everyone knows parents who are working for nothing, and parents who gave up because the economics make no sense.

Well in my view as a world, we should be focusing on evolving and working together to solve worldwide matters. Protecting our planet. So gatekeeping healthcare, services on the basis on who has what money to me is playing god. I have the ability to save you but unless you pay x amount, you die and it goes to a privileged listed minority. Surely if as a world we are capable and have resources to house, heal and provide we should?

I think the view of society revolving around who pays for what is short sighted for humanity development as a whole. It means the gene pool is very limited, war torn countries, areas with poor healthcare essentially in time die out, and only those with access to wealth access the resources to pass on genes. Which means lack of diversity in the gene pool, more genetic disorders and mutations long term.

I think society as a whole needs to be revised tbh. Different way of contributing. But I don't have the brains to know how any of that would work. I don't think anyone should sit around and mooch from others, but I also don't think people should gatekeep life and feel entitled enough who deserves to live or die :(

The costs of these people far outweigh anything they contribute
They cause nothing but misery and live outside the norms of a functioning society This is a good description of Tory MPs!

My MIL worked about 5 years in her life and yet is always moaning about the state of public services. It's the fault of immigrants apparently ......

This is a decent introductory article on the productivity problem and why Truss's budget was not the answer. It's short on headline answers of its own though.
www.niesr.ac.uk/blog/why-uk-productivity-low-and-how-can-it-improve

YNBU I often wonder what party represents those that fund the system. To me I'm happy to pay for education, health and security beyond that I'm not happy to contribute more (net contributor). The welfare state need scaling back to only provide help to the very disabled who absolutely cannot work and those where all adults in the household are working at least 37 hour per week.

I would also end council housing and leave it in the hands of private landlords, why are we funding someone else having a house they can't afford at market rates (social rent).

What makes you think our welfare system is generous now?

Have you ever seen private housing?
Have you ever been in a position where you can’t contribute?

I find statements like this so depressing as a child who grew up in foster care and needed social housing plus state help.

@LetThemEatTurnips

Yawn

You’re assuming that people on life long benefits (of which there aren’t that many) are all criminals.

You’re assuming that criminals don’t include the rich and powerful.

Nasty attitude.

It is this kind of total economic nonsense that blows my mind.

It costs a bloody fortune paying the BTL mortgages of private landlords, social housing is a) cheap and b) a national asset.

If you don't pay for housing you will have families on the street.

Humans are a nation's greatest asset, it is completely insane to want to throw British people on the street because you think it will make your country stronger.

Exactly!
Having worked for a housing association and seen the cost of building and maintaining housing stock - it can be done much more cost effectively than by private landlords. As soon as you introduce a profit motive or try and do it on the cheap, it all falls apart.

It's hilarious and cute how some of you still believe the fairytale that productivity rises will increase the general standard of living. Any gains from productivity will be skimmed off into the pockets of the already wealthy.

The fun of working for a major company is they publically announce the billions in profits they make each year - all of which goes to a handful for shareholders and owners, largely outside this country - and they demand more and more work from the low level people on the arguement of 'productivity is good' but none of the gains of that go into pay for me to take home or have taxed, they will burn me out and eventually make me another burden on the NHS but who cares as long as the shareholders can buy another yacht.

I agree re expectations. The state should provide enough for people to survive: accommodation, food, health, education and safety.
However we should not expect more than the minimum when the economic situation is as bad as it is.
Maybe there is a need to focus on what is critical: schools for ex need to function, no way around that. On the other hand, council funded community events / Christmas lights / new playground … as much as I enjoy these, when so many people are using food banks and struggling with their energy bills maybe these projects should be put on hold for a while.
Just examples of course. I can think of many more « nice, important but not critical » things funded by councils/govt.

But it doesn’t.

And the money used to fund Christmas lights is a different pot to that funding homelessness for example. Councils cannot cross fund.

We already have a thin welfare state as it is. The problem is that we don’t have an infinite supply of money in the economy. Too much of that money sits with the very wealthy. And that’s why the rest of us are poorer.

Pointing the finger at those who are already on the margins and taking even more away isn’t the answer, never is and never will be.

Yep!

This!!

We have the government we deserve - shameful as it is to admit!

Decades of teaching kids to pass exams to ensure schools can fight for their place on league tables, trite such as Big Brother or Love Island, distraction through encouragement of material goods to demonstrate status rather than promoting self worth. And several strata of society with a massive sense of entitlement- the country is a mess.

I have no idea how we fix it as a nation, but on a personal level, avoiding too much social media and focusing on critical thinking when reading other media, is a start.

It's because wages are so low and housing costs are so high.
Why are working people claiming benefits and using food banks?
People are working perfectly decent jobs yet struggle to put food on the table. It's disgusting.

We have the worst drug problem in Europe here in Scotland.

Now why is this - it could be a sort of poor me attitude, everyone else is to blame for my difficult life (especially Westminster) but there's got to be more to it than that but I can't fathom what it is.

How au fait are you with the causes of drug abuse?

I can understand it’s easier to blame individuals for drug abuse than consider also the impact of wider economic choices made by governments.

It can be both! One can make the other worse….

Stress, poor education, trauma I would guess but is Scotland the only place to have those problems.
What do you suggest would fix this problem?

I dont really understand why we cant afford decent council housing to be honest. We seemed to manage it after a war when the country was bankrupt. My mum was moved out a london slum to a nice 3 bed with indoor bathroom and heating.

So much of the countries 'wealth' seems to be tied up in paying a mortgage or paying rent. All that money could be circulating around on other things. Even much of the benefit bill is going to private landlords.

I feel if we tackled housing alone the uk would be so much better.

Talking about net beneficiaries always gets people very sneery about people on benefits, when actually you need to earn something like £45k+ to be a net contributor , so a large amount of working people are also essentially beneficiaries.

It's absolutely a deliberate angle to keep people fighting over who deserves it less. This country earns a lot of money - look how many companies are announcing record profits. Just under capitalism that is all funnelled back into the owners , rather than the state. Get angry about that not someone on your street that doesn't work