To think ‘the system is broken’ but…

[Blinddatez]

We are also breaking the system.

From reading posts on here, it seems a lot of people don’t realise just how little we actually contribute to ‘the system’, how much things cost to implement, and therefore what level of service we can realistically expect from healthcare, education and so on.

40% of people are net recipients (they receive more from the state than they put in), but that doesn’t include pensioners. Yet the expectations on here of what should be provided by the state seem to be sky high - generous benefits, good quality but cheap housing for everyone, a 5* NHS, immediate and thorough mental health support, good pensions even for people who have never worked for dubious reasons.

AIBU to think, while the money could be better spent than it is right now, the expectation of what should be provided by the state on here is a bit head-in-the-clouds?

That was a helpful read, thank you.

what makes you say that? That isn't true in my experience

It isn't as simple as lower / higher corporation tax = more / less business.

CT tax has been lower in the UK (19%) than in Germany (30%), France (26.5%), Spain (25%), Netherlands (25.8%), Canada (26.5%), Brazil (34%), USA (21%), China (25%), India (34.94%), Japan (30.62%), Egypt (22.5%), Nigeria (30%), Australia (30%) and New Zealand (28%) for some time, yet we haven't seen a glut of companies rushing to move here.

Why? Because CT is only a small piece of the business pie. Infrastructure, market size and access, workforce, ease of trade, access to key resources, legislation, country outlook aligning with global outlook, etc, etc are all far more important to a business than CT, especially as CT is only paid on profit, so companies can reduce/avoid it by investing in their company. The trick is offering a whole package that encourages / makes companies invest their revenue in your country.

Just raising CT tax to 25% wouldn't make a company leave the UK alone, more likely there are wider issues impacting businesses (I wonder what they could possibly be) and that would be the straw that breaks the camels back.

One of the areas we should be absolutely be pursuing relentlessly is the "march to net zero". There is something like £140 trillion in AUM in the Glasgow Finacial Alliance for Net Zero, £100 trillion in under the control of organisations aligned to the UN PRI framework, and a further £59 trillion in the Net Zero Asset managers initiative, all of which aim to raise and release capital for sustainable/net zero projects and investments.

The UK is already leading player in the net zero sphere (although we're still not doing anywhere near enougg) and a world leader in renewable technology, especially wind, which has huge potential in terms of generation potential for domestic consumption and export. If we just embrace the idea and stop trying to appease the dinosaur crowd we could be leaders in both manufacturing and expertise too.

A four day week and working from home for loads of people was fairyland a few years ago.

It takes warning more than £40k a year to be a net contributor. And earning it on permanent basis, not jus a few years. Do all or even most asylum seekers end up in those jobs?

👏

many are very highly qualified, experienced professionals.

Many others are not that right now, but become so later

This is entirely the wrong conclusion. The UK has discouraged higher education, training and specialism loads. No support for the majority of students and huge student loans. Many countries known for increased productivity and innovation offer free education and student grants to allow everyone to upskill - not only those who can afford and/or are heading for a lucrative career. This means that people are well trained/ educated across the board. E.g in the Nordics nursery workers have degrees to become nursery workers. They aren't just 18 year olds with an evening course under their belts. Can you imagine how beneficial it is to society and OVERALL productivity to have people who are well trained and well educated across the board? Not just in "professions".

How many? What proportion of asylum seeker are net contributors?

many are very highly qualified, experienced professionals.

Lol.

Why do you think there is any link between being an asylum seeker and NOT being a net contributor?

Do you know many?

I know refugees who are doctors, engineers, craftsmen, graphic designers, airline pilots, legal experts, journalists, footballers....

I also know many who are children, and will most likely grow up to be net contributors...

I simply don't understand why you are blindly assuming they won't be? Where is this coming from? It is completely unreasonable, and makes no sense to me at all

o, and teachers - I know quite a lot of refugees who are teachers, heads of department ( my HOD, actually) deputy heads....

also in shortage subjects

translators

industrial chemist...

In fact, these people contribute more over their life time than british nationals, as we have paid nothing at all for their education and training

Just asking for numbers. You knowing people doesn’t make it a statistical reality.

@whatadayforadaydream I'm not necessarily opposed to HE being publicly funded, but the quality of what's on offer at present is dire: Ex-polytechnics offering McDegrees to young people who'd be better off doing apprenticeships and gaining actual skills, while the more prestigious institutions peddle neo-Marxist claptrap.

It's not all dire. Some might be, but there is excellent quality education and research happening all over UK universities. There's this weird perception and disdain for HE in British society, exactly this notion that it's all micky mouse degress and has no real value unless you are off to be a doctor or a lawyer.

Not really. I don’t think it’s ‘mean’ or ‘bigoted’ to want immigration to benefit our country. With all the other issues piling up we don’t have the cash to spend on long term programs to teach English, get people qualified, help them job hunt and prop them up in the meantime. It hasn’t exactly worked with our own population, who all get their 13+ years of education but many apparently still cannot find a job.

I say that with tongue in cheek though, there are many jobs out there, it’s just the British don’t want to do a lot of them.

25% of the working population pay ZERO income take.

HE should be funded in areas where we have skills shortages. I don’t think anyone should be able to ‘borrow’ 50k from the state to study dance, gender studies or similar. Where is the benefit to the country there? After 13 years of education it just feels like kicking the can down the road to avoid getting a ‘normal’ job. Most of the people I went to school with don’t work in a job related to their degree at all unless it was something like nursing, medicine, engineering etc

What excellent research? I don’t think anyone is going to argue against medical/tech research, but some of it does seem almost pointless.

Immigration, generally, is positive for the economy. 1) it hasn't cost the state money looking after the immigrants from birth till working age, so that saves a bunch 2) many immigrants return to their home countries on retirement 3) most - depite what the DM would have you believe - are here to work. They are literally here to earn money and thereby contribute to the econonmy. They don't just come here for the good weather.

Well medical and tech are big ones. Sciences. Social sciences. The things that help develop society and the economy. Innovation. What is it that you find pointless?

Nobody is saying ‘asylum seekers are thick’, they’re pointing out the obvious that their qualifications and language ability may well mean they will need years of training to be able to work in the field they previously did in their country of origin. Do we have the cash for this? I’m not sure.

You on one hand this UK education and research is pointless, but on the other think that immigrants from other countries will take years to have qualifications that can benefit the UK society. Which is it?