AIBU not going to my nephew's christening?

[headlessduck]

Hey, my sister has just had her first baby and they have decided to christen him. None of our family is religious, but my BIL's parents are quite religious. I think they are mostly christening him because of them. I think that raising your child to be religious is deeply unethical. I think it is wrong to teach kids their ludicrous beliefs which there is almost no evidence for as if they are facts. It actively discourages critical thinking. You are facilitating a religion that is deeply misogynistic and homophobic, even if you conveniently ignore these parts of the Bible. Christenings are promising to do just that. At best it is a hypocritical promise. In this case, I think this is all it is. I feel uncomfortable supporting this, and I find religious ceremonies infuriating and boring. I told her I would not be going for these reasons. It is their choice. I am not trying to stop them from doing this, I just don't want to go myself. However, she told me this was "ridiculous" and "pathetic" and that it was "mostly just an excuse for a party." What does everyone think of this? AIBU not going to my nephew's christening?

I also think Christening/Baptism is completely different from a wedding or funeral. Those involve adults.

A christening involves putting religious beliefs on a baby who cannot speak for themselves. Many of us have problems with that specific aspect.

People talking about functions that adults choose with full will, such as weddings, or originally pagan holidays like Christmas or Easter is simply desperate whataboutery.

In the end, it's obvious the OP is hostile to Christianity and doesn't believe in Christenings. So, why can't people accept that and stop trying to bully her to engage with something she does not want to do? You might not agree with her reasons, but at least respect her wishes and leave her alone.

The cowardly op seems to have fucked off but I've been to plenty of christenings despite seeing god as father christmas for adults. There are many social rituals which you can be part of while thinking they're unnecessary.

I'm with you. Totally wrong to subject children to the lies and manipulation of religious groups.

There's no evidence of the OP's sister "continuing to bully" her.

Only that her sister called her ridiculous and pathetic after she subjected her to a long speech about the evils of religion in response to an innocent invitation to a family event, when she could have simply said, "oh sorry I can't make it, I already have a wedding/hen do/holiday" booked over that date, or "great, looking forward to it" and then cried off sick at the last minute.

Or she could have said, "sorry, I don't do religion, could I just join you for the party afterwards?" without the massive, rude and hurtful speech. In which case if her sister then said, "no, you absolutely must participate in our family's religious rite even if you don't believe in it, and if you don't I will cut you off and by the way you're going to hell", in which case you and the OP would have a point.

But that didn't happen. Or if it did, that would be quire the drip feed.

The OP sounds insufferably pompous. Imagine telling somebody you wouldn’t attend their religious event because other deities were made-up/homophobic/misogynistic etc etc.

I am not a religious person but I have been to all sorts - Jewish, Muslim and Hindu weddings and funerals as well as various types of Christian ones - including happy clappy ones (the worst!).

Clearly Strict Atheism does not embrace tolerance. Which makes it in my book just as bad as any “official” religion.

Christenings are focussed on the child - the love of God towards that child and asking for God's help in the important task of raising it. It is a celebration of life and parenting and it seems like you are not going to be able to be happy there.
You either put your feelings aside and support your sister with out complaint or rubbishing their beliefs or stay well away and visit with your sister another time..

Ah the irony,nobodies bullying the Op,,posters are respectful of her atheist beliefs ,what they are not respectful of us her intolerance to other people,s beliefs ,but I don't think the Op is coming back.anyway.

If posters were respectful of OP's atheist beliefs, they wouldn't disrespect her strongly held beliefs by telling her to 'suck it up and go'. So yes, it is bullying and it's disrespectful and it would not be done to a Hindu or Muslim or anyone else. Only atheists.

I can't speak for anybody else, but I certainly haven't said the OP should suck it up and go. On the contrary, I think my first comment was along the lines of, "I bet you're fun at parties (not)."

I think the OP should have been more respectful of her sister and her sister's family by not treating her to an unsolicited polemic about why she shouldn't be having her baby baptised.

Why is it OK for atheists to be intolerant, but not people with religious beliefs? Why the double standards?

And once again, how exactly do you interpret the OP to mean that the OP's sister is bullying her, rather than the other way around?

I didn't eartheN should go and in fact I have read many other posters telling the Op to stay away a
why is the Op.in your opinion allowed to be openly hostile about christianity?
the world would be a much nicer place if people could respect other people's beliefs and not be hostile about demand that works both ways .

I believe in free speech and so I believe that - provided you are not committing some sort of hate crime or illegally discriminating against someone - you should be allowed to be openly hostile about Christianity.

What you can't expect is to be openly hostile about Christianity in response to a loved one inviting you to a family event and expect them to be polite and respectful to you in response.

She hasn't been hostile. Why are we accusing people of being 'hostile' and 'Aggressive?' when they're really not? It smacks of gaslighting.

We don't have to respect ridiculous beliefs, does mumsnet on the whole respect the belief that 'transwomen are women,' for example?

You don't think the outpouring of scorn in the OP is hostile?

Ok then...

Of course it’s unethical.

The child is being baptised into a faith and once it’s done it’s done and can’t be undone.

Trying to get off the CoE baptismal register is all but impossible and the church uses those registers to justify its claim that it is entitled to impose itself on the country and how the rest of us live our lives.

Some churches don’t baptise infants any more and it’s more than time the CoE followed suit but hey look at all the income they’d lose and “membership “ ( different from attendance which is already collapsing) numbers would be negligible when those of us who are included against our will die off.

Scorn? What has she said that's 'scornful' or even untrue?

Yet it’s atheists that are expected to suck it up and go along with something they fundamentally disagree with in the name of family harmony. A christening is a religious decision made on behalf of a child, which is quite different to religious decisions made by adults on behalf of themselves.

OP isn’t trying to stop her sister, she knows full well she can make whatever decision she likes. OP spoke plainly, yes, to her sister. I speak plainly to my brother, and he does with me. That’s the nature of our (good) relationship, as it may well ordinarily be the nature of OP’s.

OP can respect her sister’s decision to go ahead and have a christening, and the sister can respect OP’s decision to not be involved.

This. Why does everything have to be so over-thought. Just go, have fun wth your family and enjoy yourself.

Her diatribe about religion is not respecting her sister's decision.

Nobody needs to hear the OP's inner monologue about this subject. At best, it's boring.

I'd say the comments about critical thinking and hypocrisy are pretty scornful.

As for truth, everything she has said is a matter of opinion, not fact.

YABU, a christening is also a celebration of a baby and welcoming them to the world. Its a nice occasion and a happy family get together.
You sound like an overthinking killjoy tbh! Just go along and enjoy it for what it is, a beautiful day celebrating the baby.

Some people think eating animal products or having an abortion is unethical.

That doesn't mean we need to see them protesting with placards in places where they aren't wanted or boring the tits off everyone who disagrees with them about it.

She’s not telling her sister to not have the christening, or actively trying to prevent it. She shared her opinion with her sister, something that is fairly normal for siblings.

If I told my sister I thought her beliefs were unethical, ludicrous, misogynistic, homophobic and hypocritical, and demonstrative of a lack of critical thinking, I wouldn't expect our relationship to be unaffected by it.

Nor would I post a thread on Mumsnet asking if I was unreasonable to say all those things and complaining about being called ridiculous and pathetic (both of which I think are fairly tame in comparison) in return.

If I told my sister I thought her beliefs were unethical, ludicrous, misogynistic, homophobic and hypocritical, and demonstrative of a lack of critical thinking, I wouldn't expect our relationship to be unaffected by it.

Really? I mean which part would you argue is untrue?

They’re not her sister’s beliefs though, are they? They’re her sister’s excuse to have a party, in her own words.

Relationship dynamics between siblings differ depending on the individuals involved. I have a relationship with my brother where I can say if I think he’s being a bit of a dickhead, and he can say the same to me. We have a strong relationship, and trust each other to speak plainly, even if it’s likely to piss one of us off. Clearly to some this would be considered rude and outrageous. To each their own.