AIBU not going to my nephew's christening?

[headlessduck]

Hey, my sister has just had her first baby and they have decided to christen him. None of our family is religious, but my BIL's parents are quite religious. I think they are mostly christening him because of them. I think that raising your child to be religious is deeply unethical. I think it is wrong to teach kids their ludicrous beliefs which there is almost no evidence for as if they are facts. It actively discourages critical thinking. You are facilitating a religion that is deeply misogynistic and homophobic, even if you conveniently ignore these parts of the Bible. Christenings are promising to do just that. At best it is a hypocritical promise. In this case, I think this is all it is. I feel uncomfortable supporting this, and I find religious ceremonies infuriating and boring. I told her I would not be going for these reasons. It is their choice. I am not trying to stop them from doing this, I just don't want to go myself. However, she told me this was "ridiculous" and "pathetic" and that it was "mostly just an excuse for a party." What does everyone think of this? AIBU not going to my nephew's christening?

But she's not being preachy. It's the sister that is harassing the OP and won't take no for an answer.

I think the answer to your "but why should she have to?" question, which I imagine accompanied by a petulant foot stamp, is "she doesn't have to, but it would be a nice thing to do to avoid hurting the feelings of someone she loves".

Well that's him. Some people don't want to sacrifice their principles. It's not all about you. Some people have strong beliefs and they should be respected. If you (rhetorical you) can't respect them, then that says more about you than them. Free will and respect goes both ways.

Perhaps the sister could accept OP's wishes. That would be a nice thing to do, instead of making everything about her. The world doesn't revolve around a christening. It would be nice for the sister to respect the OP's views with good grace and not hurt her feelings by calling her "pathetic" and "ridiculous", while stamping her feet because OP dares have different beliefs to her and declined the invite.

I'm not disagreeing with you.

If your principles are such that you cannot participate in a family event such as a baptism or a church wedding, and you cannot tell a white lie about why you are not participating in order to spare the feelings of your loved ones, fine.

But what you don't get to do is dictate how others feel or react to your behaviour.

In support of my sister and nephew I would go. Your views on religion are fine but definitely not worth a family falling out over. Plus if you had a child and didn’t want to baptise im sure you wouldn’t want to hear their views on how you should do it , you’d want them to support your decision. I would go OP.

But what you don't get to do is dictate how others feel or react to your behaviour.

But that's my whole point. That is exactly what the sister is doing to the OP. Even calling the OP "pathetic" and "ridiculous" for standing up for her beliefs. The sister can have a christening but she has no right to name-call, bully and brow-beat those who decline an invite. It's rude and would put me off going even more. It's one thing to invite people and accept their declines, another entirely to attempt to bully, coerce and browbeat.

I genuinely wonder if OP were a Muslim and declined on the basic of her Islamic beliefs would she still call OP pathetic and ridiculous, or is it only atheists that are considered fair game to bully and disrespect.

Not all Christians are homophobic, OP. Some churches, like mine, have their mindset in the 21st century and understand that the bible was written by men, not God, and therefore society views at the time would have had an influence. There is a number of gay people who attend my church quite happily. For the same reason, we don't believe women are inferior to men nor do we think that IVF is wrong etc etc.

I agree though that religion is horrible. Modern churches normally don't buy into religion because religion is a set of rules and everyone thinking the same thing and behaving the same way. We believe in God, want a relationship with him, but that is a very different thing to blindly following religion.

It doesn't look as if op has been back.

I think a lot of people share op's views but would never say anything about it.

I am fairly churchy...well, less so these days. But if I felt as strongly as op does, I'd probably just have turned down the invitation and not said why.

I would happily go to an atheist naming ceremony. In fact, I was the child's 'guardian' (like godmother) at one of these. I'd also go to a baptism at churches outside my own faith or from other religions entirely. I don't know any Christian who would refuse to go to an atheist ceremony, whether it be a wedding, funeral or christening. I would draw the line at something like a Satanist ceremony or whatever, but I don't know any parents who'd choose that for their baby's naming day anyway.

One thing I've noticed is that if you're an atheist, bullying atheists seems to be accepted practice in a way it wouldn't be with Muslims, Hindus, Judaism, or even Witchcraft.

What is it about the absence of a religious belief that makes atheists fair game to coerce and browbeat and insult? These people who think the OP should 'suck it up' would never say the same to a devout Muslim who didn't want to go to a Christening. It's such double standards and such blatant disrespect.

Oh and my eldest's godfather is a gay man. He had no issues with being part of the christening, renouncing Satan and all the rest. So if you're abstaining on behalf of all gay people, it may be misplaced.

I think a lot of people share op's views but would never say anything about it.

Yep, and from the bullying and disrespectful replies to the OP we can see why. Stand up for your Christian beliefs, ok.
Stand up for your Islamic beliefs, ok.
Stand up for your Jewish beliefs, ok.
Stand up for your Wiccan beliefs, ok.
Stand up for your Hindu beliefs, ok.

Stand up for your atheist beliefs? NoT EvEryThIng is about you! Just 'suck it up'. You're "pathetic". Etc etc.

What gives? Why the double standards? Why can't people accept a No with respect, appreciation and grace?

I'm sure you can skip the ceremony and just come to the party (with a nice gift)

I have never experienced this and have met a number of atheists who are very keen to 'convert' me. Much more so than anyone who has a faith (excepting street Preachers and the like).

If you've experienced that, that's terrible though and your lack of faith ought to be respected as much as my faith ought to be

I can’t believe you gave your sister that self-righteous speech, rather than saying ‘sorry, I won’t be able to make it’. Fucking hell.

Well, it's far less likely that a devout Muslim would be the sister of someone baptising her child into the Christian religion.

But why are you assuming that a devout Muslim wouldn't go to a Christening ti support their loved ones?

That's pretty narrow minded.

Where does it say she gave her sister that speech? She was explaining to us her beliefs. She never said she told her sister that. If you read the OP, the sister won't take no for an answer and called the OP "pathetic" and "ridiculous" just for saying no. Re-read the OP.

There are many reverts (converts) in families, and whether it's likely or not, you'd have a Muslim friend or co-worker.

Most Muslims would not attend a Christening. This is common knowledge. It's against their beliefs.

This is nonsense.

I think most people - including most Christians - would agree that telling everyone who doesn't share their beliefs that they are going straight to hell is completely unacceptable.

That's the equivalent of what the OP, and other militant atheist bores, is doing here.

It's quite incredible that you can listen to the OP's own account of treating her sister to a diatribe about the Christian religion being unethical, misogynistic, homophobic, discouraging critical thinking, accusing her sister of being a hypocrite, and saying she doesn't want to go because she'll feel uncomfortable but also because the ceremony will be "infuriating and boring", and come to the conclusion that the OP is being bullied for her beliefs, rather than the other way around.

The OP's sister hasn't said the OP is being ridiculous and pathetic for not being religious, whereas the OP has in fact said that Christians are stupid, bigoted and hypocritical because of their beliefs.

You can't say such awful things to someone and expect them to just smile and say "oh OK then, I respect your right to think those things about me and my family, no hard feelings".

Where is your evidence that they would not attend a Christening? I know plenty of Muslims who happily attend church weddings, and indeed non Muslims who have attended Muslim weddings.

Not everyone is so narrow minded to think that they can only support their loved ones in major life milestones with religious rites attached if they belong to exactly the same religion and believe exactly the same things.

I think you need to re-read the OP.

Specifically, the part where she says, "I told her I would not be going for these reasons."

YABU. Have you never been to a church wedding or funeral because of your beliefs? I’m an atheist and I’ve been to lots of religious events for other people whatever their faiths because it’s about them, not about you. You sound very sanctimonious. I agree with your sister, pathetic and ridiculous sounds about right. I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re that family member who’s always hard work.

No, your extrapolation is nonsense. OP was telling us her reasoning. No where does she say she said all that to her sister. I think her sister would already know her beliefs on Christianity, don't you? So that conversation wouldn't have even needed to have happened and likely didn't. Actually, that sister knows OP's views and still bullies her to attend, is extra proof of my point.

The only one that we know that has actually been abusive, is the OP's sister. She called the OP "pathetic" and "ridiculous" for not wanting to go to something. It exactly proves my point that with some (not all) Christians, respect is only one way. Even the replies that OP should 'suck it up and go' would NEVER be said to someone of a sacred religious belief. Only atheists are fair game by disrespectful people.

Once again, for the hard of reading, @ItsShiela:

"I told her I would not be going for these reasons."

Do you honestly think her sister doesn't know her own sister is strongly atheist? So why would she continue to bully the OP to attend something she doesn't want to do?

Why can't she accept no?