Quran School Incident

[Everanewbie]

The reaction to this non-incident is shameful. We're effectively charging this poor autistic boy with blasphemy and his mother is begging for his life.

The Christian King Richard, in a comparable period of history had a 11 year concubine

LOL what are you talking about? The trope of the hypersexual Black male can be almost wholly and precisely located within white supremacist narratives of the Antebellum and post Reconstruction Deep South.

It has never been applied to Muslims. It was applied to Ottomans and Ancient Persians to some extent, often by other non-Western peoples. And rooted in different tropes.

Modern Islamophobia is rooted in the 19th - 20th century European trope of 'Moslems' as being warlike, fanatical, and contemptuous of females. This in itself was drawn from myths and narratives around the so-called Crusades and the Ottoman Empire.

Islamophobia is a huge problem but let's be analytical in the way that we approach the problem please!

I went to a Catholic scuba's you should have seen what state the schools copies of the Bible were in.

You don't have to get upset about what others say if you have confidence and faith in your religion. You believe she married and consummated at 16 and 19 cool. Mary supposedly got pregnant with Jesus at 12 things were different at the time. People are always going to pick apart and debate religion that's human nature. A violent reaction and offense shows a lack of confidence in your faith.

@Lesschubtolove you think people should be prevented from destroying holy texts. How are you going to stop them?

Asking nicely probably won’t work.

I have no interest personally in defacing any books (maybe that shitrag the DM) but if someone else wants to, it’s nowt to do with me. Unless you’re going to “encourage” me otherwise, using the law.

it’s the obvious consequence of what you are advocating (and in fact the only way it will have any effect).

And ? I don't worship King Richard , I don't worship anyone I'm now agnostic.

Absolutely about black males yes.

i think rather than hypersexualised I meant sexually aggressive

But it is about Muslim men also, it was a feature of colonialism how sexual certain aspect of Muslim culture were and you can see it in how the western media presents discourses around Muslim men, they are often presented as sexual predators unable to help themselves and preying on white women.

Here is an interesting thread on the whole situation and follow up meetings

twitter.com/adrian_hilton/status/1629546651730706433

I think it’s often quite complicated and the radicals have exploited that, exploited people feeling like they are being attacked and never fitting in into rallying people into defending, often aggressively ‘their way of life’ from what they feel is constant criticism.

often these people are actually not very well educated on their faith but they’ve been told xyz xyz and that they should do such and such, it’s why isis recruited people who were often ‘born again’ and had commit a lot of ‘sins’ prior to their new found religion

Well I’d hope we’d start with good education and interfaith dialogue and remove the want from people to denigrate things that matter to others.

@Lesschubtolove I think that’s spectacularly naive tbh, human behaviour being the shitshow that it is!

What if that doesn’t work?

Isn’t it weird how someone can make a death threat against an autistic child and then pat themselves on the back for being moral.

I just don't get why people get so angry , you cannot force others to respect and believe or you are imposing blasphemy laws.

I think that people are very confused and more than a little two faced here. I am not suggesting that there should be blasphemy laws, nor would I support them. I am not saying that people must respect what others believe or that they should be forced to believe it too. I DO believe that people should not show or act in deliberately disrespectful ways which is something entirely different. And that principle is established in law time and time again - in laws that say that there are consequences for being racist for example. We do, as a society, expect a certain standard of behaviour from the collective that enables us to "rub along" without a chaotic descent into everyone doing what the hell they want. But sometimes around here is seems that only applies to everyone else and not "us".

Then if it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work does it and idiots will always be idiots

Well that’s true! @Lesschubtolove <cynical emoticon>

You cannot compel people to be respectful of religious texts “or else”. The “or else” is where the blasphemy laws come in, and our judiciary has long decided they are complete nonsense.

That article is so biased. So four white boys brought the Quran as a dare into a West Yorkshire school that has Muslim kids and the Humanist is expecting us to believe they treated it respectfully?

yeah, I’ve know major bones with humanism as a creed (except for being so human centric which is a pretty irrational outlook for a belief system which prides itself on rationality above all else) - but I do however I find that some humanists are more of the anti religion crusader types of the Dawkins variety. They claim to espouse a live and let live philosophy but actually enjoy exaggerating the “crimes” of religious people and stirring shit up. Their beliefs are very different to the religious groups but the mentality is remarkably similar.

The thing is, it’s just a book. The bible is just a book, the Quran is just a book. If you don’t believe what is written within it, it may be a fairytale for all you care.

The attachment humans place on the books is the issue. I say this as a Christian, who does read the bible.

Again, that's an imprecise characterisation. The Islamophobic trope is specifically that Muslim men prey sexually on white (usually female) children.

Interestingly this was an anti-Semitic, rather than Islamophobic, trope for many centuries and related to the so-called 'blood libel'. It probably reached its apogee in the UK in 1290 with the Edict of Expulsion. But one can still see traces of it in the characterisation of Fagin in Oliver Twist, which has marked peadophilic undertones.

Some Q-Anon types still occasionally try to breathe life into the old blood libel trope although now they characterise it in terms of Epstein and his 'party yacht'.

I would also like to add that I don't understand your reference to a 'feature of colonialism'. What colonisalism are you talking about? the Muslim ottoman Empire covered a fifth of the globe at one point and there are well documented examples of them seizing Christian subjects and sexually trafficking them (ie harem slavery) eg in the Katastrophe of Khios in 1822. Khian teenage girls were turning up in slave markets for years after that. Even Byron got exercised about it, and he wasn't normally a big fan of sexual boundaries himself.

We have a very complex history in the UK with blasphemy we used to regularly burn people at the stake for example for being witches. Hangings etc. The country is very much against any blasphemy laws as a result and it's very unlikely to change unless there was a large demographic shift. People won't ever be prosecuted for disrespecting a book , yes dialogue should be needed for as there's no reason to purposefully mock people. It is a book though and some people don't believe , have enough confidence in your faith and you won't become angry at the non believers.

I DO believe that people should not show or act in deliberately disrespectful ways which is something entirely different

exactly - most schools these days rightly place the ”different but equal” stuff at the core of their philosophy. So in those terms taking a book which is of extreme cultural importance into school for a laugh and it then getting roughed - and in a very multicultural area presumably, is quite a serious breech of that quote. So while suspension seems OTT to me, it isn’t simply “just a book” getting smudged, it was an extremely culturally insensitive and offensive action that will have probably upset dozens of students who attend the same school.

It is just a book though , God is supposedly all powerful and all knowing. Such a powerful being is unlikely to feel the need to be defended against a autistic child. To me the death threats signify an insecurity in faith.

Whatever words are written onto paper it’s still a book. It might be a book you believe in. But it is factually just a book. It has no more significance than spare does. Both are mass printed books. Not original pieces of history or art.

Should say not THE original.

@Quveas did you read the article I posted where I saw this. Also there local Muslim counsellor addresses the death threats on his video. And you can watch the video of the mother cowed before the community leaders. But as I guessed, certain people in our society want blasphemy laws. And other people are useful idiots trying to be kind who will make sure we end up in a situation where the values of the law will come second to the religious sensitivities of incoming groups.