Page 7 | Sister lies about how much help our parents give her

horseyhorsey17 · 2023-02-27T11:03:10+00:00

It's not so much an AIBU as a WWYD in my position. Me and my sister are both single mums with two kids. She lives near my parents, I don't. I work full time, she's never held down a job for more than six weeks in her life. University educated, clever, attractive, personable - but there's always a reason why she quits the job and then has a few months off. Last time it was because her boss was a paedo (she didn't have any evidence for this, it was just a 'feeling'.) The upshot of this is that my parents give her a lot of money. They 'loaned' her a lot to buy her house (which they won't get back) and they have to pay her mortgage most months. They don't want to but my mum is a soft touch as far as she's concerned, in fact probably she's the reason why my sister is the way she is. They also do loads of her childcare. I live miles away and don't get any of the same treatment, but I'm not really bothered (that's *why* I live miles away) but what does bother me is that my sister tries to gaslight me about this. I struggle to speak to her on the phone as it always come back to how hard done by she is, and how terrible mum and dad are, and how they're rich and why don't they give her more money. I just found out yesterday that they bought her a new washing machine as hers packed up. My last conversation with my sister was a couple of days ago and that wasn't mentioned at all. She also says mum and dad don't help with her childcare, but every time I ring them, her kids are at their house. It's just a really weird dynamic. I think she's on the narcissism spectrum and she definitely does try and manipulate people - perhaps unintentionally - but just wondered if anyone could shed light on what is going on here, and what if anything, I should do? I've never said to her 'I know they help you loads, stop lying' because I know it would lead to WW3. I also worry a lot what's going to happen when my parents die (as they're in their late 70s now) and she becomes my problem! When her kids leave home and she doesn't get those benefit any more, how is she going to finance herself?

Oldnproud · 27/02/2023 16:44

orchid220 · 27/02/2023 16:23

They aren't going to both have a stroke or suddenly get dementia on the same day.

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No, but its quite likely that one of the couple sees to financial matters. Thats very common in that age group. What if that one has a stroke, and the other hasn't a clue about how to (for example) deal with this? Many elderly people in this position turn to their children to help them in this situation, but without Power of Attorney in place, what those children and even the stroke victim's spouse can do is limited. This is one reason why Powers of Attorney need to be thought about and set up before needed..

IVFbeenverylucky · 27/02/2023 16:48

The sister won't "only" have a state pension. She'll have less. Presumably she does not have a single years worth of NI contributions and so she will the minimum beneath that.

BashirWithTheGoodBeard · 27/02/2023 16:51

IVFbeenverylucky · 27/02/2023 16:48

The sister won't "only" have a state pension. She'll have less. Presumably she does not have a single years worth of NI contributions and so she will the minimum beneath that.

She'll probably have some from years receiving child benefit and in sixth form, but yeah not likely to be a full contributions record. There might be pension credit though, depending on what lump sums have been given to her and when.

Original poster

horseyhorsey17 · 27/02/2023 16:55

orchid220 · 27/02/2023 16:11

I can see that it's annoying that they give her money and help with childcare and not you, but it's their money and their time and really nothing to do with you. I find your “concern” a bit fake as it's pretty obvious you are motivated by jealousy. She's obviously telling you one thing and they're telling you another but calling it “gaslighting” is a bit ridiculous.

The posters suggesting you get power of attorney are also being ridiculous. Why would they give you that if they are of sound mind?

There was always going to be one reply telling me I'm jealous, and here it is!

But no, I don't secretly wish it was me running my parents ragged and causing them a load of stress and putting pressure on their marriage.

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Original poster

horseyhorsey17 · 27/02/2023 16:58

Stomacharmeleon · 27/02/2023 16:00

You have ignored countless questions about your other sibling. Where do they feature In all this?

I'm worried about stuff being too identifying! So thought I'd just leave them out of it tbh.

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HamBone · 27/02/2023 16:58

orchid220 · 27/02/2023 16:23

They aren't going to both have a stroke or suddenly get dementia on the same day.

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@orchid220 No, but if my FIL (82) has a stroke in a couple of years, it’s quite possible that my MIL won’t be deemed to have capacity by then. So who’d make decisions?

As I’ve said, my experience with my elderly father and my late step-Mum is that your health can suddenly deteriorate in your 80’s. If someone younger and healthy who loves them can help, it relieves a lot of strain and legal complications.

orchid220 · 27/02/2023 16:59

Oldnproud · 27/02/2023 16:44

No, but its quite likely that one of the couple sees to financial matters. Thats very common in that age group. What if that one has a stroke, and the other hasn't a clue about how to (for example) deal with this? Many elderly people in this position turn to their children to help them in this situation, but without Power of Attorney in place, what those children and even the stroke victim's spouse can do is limited. This is one reason why Powers of Attorney need to be thought about and set up before needed..

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Why would it be too late for a power of attorney to be put in place if the person who normally deals with financial matters had a stroke? The person of sound mind could still do it if they wanted to. They could also just ask their child to help them out with sorting bills etc if they needed to.

Original poster

horseyhorsey17 · 27/02/2023 16:59

BashirWithTheGoodBeard · 27/02/2023 16:51

She'll probably have some from years receiving child benefit and in sixth form, but yeah not likely to be a full contributions record. There might be pension credit though, depending on what lump sums have been given to her and when.

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Really unlikely she'll get anywhere near a full contributions record.

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justasking111 · 27/02/2023 17:00

@horseyhorsey17 you say it puts a strain on your parents marriage. Is your mother independently well off if she's the one dishing out the money?

Original poster

horseyhorsey17 · 27/02/2023 17:04

BashirWithTheGoodBeard · 27/02/2023 16:22

What's being missed here is that sorting a POA now doesn't ensure that can't happen. Because it isn't a case of everyone signing, problem solved, permanent solution. People with capacity can revoke their POA any time they like.

You're putting a lot of faith in the DPs ongoing cooperation, DM especially, with any attempts to protect them. Let's say OP does talk them into a POA that doesn't include Dsis. In order for that to continue to be worth the paper it's written on, given the enmeshment and manipulation here, that either requires Dsis never to find out about it in the first place whilst they still have capacity or, if she does find out, for DPs to hold out against the inevitable attempts to get it changed. They could both still have capacity for decades, if they're only in their 70s.

How likely is this, really, given the dynamics and history here? These are not people who have shown any indication of being willing and able to assert the sort of boundaries that would be needed to set this up, keep it secret and resist any pressure if they don't manage the second part.

This is an appallingly enmeshed and enabling setup and there's no option that involves signing some paperwork to remove the possibility of it continuing to be so in decades to come. It's better for OP not to pretend that there is, and to protect herself accordingly.

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You're right - DM would not agree to this.

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BashirWithTheGoodBeard · 27/02/2023 17:04

horseyhorsey17 · 27/02/2023 16:59

Really unlikely she'll get anywhere near a full contributions record.

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I agree. You can only get the NI credits from receiving CB until the child is 12, although I'm not sure if you can get more in total if you have a child under 12 for longer iyswim. But it doesn't sound like the age gap between her kids is huge anyway so that added to sixth form is probably going to leave her well below 20 years.

Original poster

horseyhorsey17 · 27/02/2023 17:08

justasking111 · 27/02/2023 17:00

@horseyhorsey17 you say it puts a strain on your parents marriage. Is your mother independently well off if she's the one dishing out the money?

She has some of her own money, but a lot comes from the joint pot. She has literally threatened to leave my dad if he doesn't agree to helping my sister out though. It's made everything really toxic for all of us for years tbh.

My sister believes she is entitled to this money and that they are mean and stingy. I'm fed up with hearing from both sides now actually.

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orchid220 · 27/02/2023 17:09

HamBone · 27/02/2023 16:58

@orchid220 No, but if my FIL (82) has a stroke in a couple of years, it’s quite possible that my MIL won’t be deemed to have capacity by then. So who’d make decisions?

As I’ve said, my experience with my elderly father and my late step-Mum is that your health can suddenly deteriorate in your 80’s. If someone younger and healthy who loves them can help, it relieves a lot of strain and legal complications.

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Has your mother-in-law already lost capacity?. If she has then maybe it would be a good idea for your father-in-law to set up power of attorney now, if he wants to. If they are both fine at the moment, why would you expect them to be incapacitated at the same time? It may not be impossible but then maybe your DH will have a stroke and you will lose capacity on the same day too. Are you sorting out power of attorney for yourselves too?

HamBone · 27/02/2023 17:09

@horseyhorsey17 I suppose you’d better leave them to it then, even though your Dad sounds more amenable. What a horrible situation.

Oldnproud · 27/02/2023 17:11

orchid220 · 27/02/2023 16:59

Why would it be too late for a power of attorney to be put in place if the person who normally deals with financial matters had a stroke? The person of sound mind could still do it if they wanted to. They could also just ask their child to help them out with sorting bills etc if they needed to.

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Here's a brief answer copied across from AgeUK website:

If you’re married or in a civil partnership, you may have assumed that your spouse would automatically be able to deal with your bank account and pensions, and make decisions about your healthcare, if you lose the ability to do so. This is not the case. Without an LPA, they won’t have the authority.

www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/money-legal/legal-issues/power-of-attorney/

Minimalme · 27/02/2023 17:17

It doesn't sound like you can influence the situation in any way.

What your parents do or don't do is their own business. You Dad is as much a part of this mess because he has allowed it to happen.

It all sounds very dysfunctional and I am not surprised your sister isn't very functional herself.

HamBone · 27/02/2023 17:18

orchid220 · 27/02/2023 17:09

Has your mother-in-law already lost capacity?. If she has then maybe it would be a good idea for your father-in-law to set up power of attorney now, if he wants to. If they are both fine at the moment, why would you expect them to be incapacitated at the same time? It may not be impossible but then maybe your DH will have a stroke and you will lose capacity on the same day too. Are you sorting out power of attorney for yourselves too?

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@orchid220 Yes, my in-laws set up POA’s several years ago. The DH and I intend to set them up once our children are adults.

I know I’m harping on about it, but unless you’ve been in a situation where people have needed this, you won’t really appreciate how useful it is. My Dad had a breakdown after my step-Mum died of terminal cancer and the both the health and financial POA’s were very helpful, especially when legal decisions needed to be made after my SM’s death. He’s much better now, but has said repeatedly that he’s glad they’re in place.

I'm just sharing my personal experience. 🤷

theoldhasgone · 27/02/2023 17:20

horseyhorsey17 · 27/02/2023 17:08

She has some of her own money, but a lot comes from the joint pot. She has literally threatened to leave my dad if he doesn't agree to helping my sister out though. It's made everything really toxic for all of us for years tbh.

My sister believes she is entitled to this money and that they are mean and stingy. I'm fed up with hearing from both sides now actually.

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OP, I really feel for you. Do you think separate conversations with your dad (about legalities like POA, wills, trusts, etc) are the way forward?

My own mother was completely unable to see how she was enabling my sister. It would have been impossible to make her see how unsustainable it was.

justasking111 · 27/02/2023 17:20

@horseyhorsey17

www.ageuk.org.uk/

Age UK is a good idea. Contact them for advice.

orchid220 · 27/02/2023 17:22

horseyhorsey17 · 27/02/2023 16:55

There was always going to be one reply telling me I'm jealous, and here it is!

But no, I don't secretly wish it was me running my parents ragged and causing them a load of stress and putting pressure on their marriage.

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Are these the parents that “tried to palm her off on you” when you're younger and sent her to live with you during the holidays when you were at university, with no money so you ended up paying for the both of you. Have you ever considered that perhaps they are exaggerating about the help they give her and that's why she gives a different story?

orchid220 · 27/02/2023 17:25

Oldnproud · 27/02/2023 17:11

Here's a brief answer copied across from AgeUK website:

If you’re married or in a civil partnership, you may have assumed that your spouse would automatically be able to deal with your bank account and pensions, and make decisions about your healthcare, if you lose the ability to do so. This is not the case. Without an LPA, they won’t have the authority.

www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/money-legal/legal-issues/power-of-attorney/

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That assumes bank accounts are separate. OP said the money is coming from a joint account. Next of kin can usually make decisions on healthcare if someone is incapacitated.

HamBone · 27/02/2023 17:31

@orchid220 Why are you anti-POA’s? Have you/someone you know had a bad experience with them?

Wombats23 · 27/02/2023 17:33

It's the doctors who have final say without a POA.

It needs to be set up when everyone is well. It's a bit of a faff but the alternative is very expensive requiring court and solicitors.

BashirWithTheGoodBeard · 27/02/2023 17:35

horseyhorsey17 · 27/02/2023 17:04

You're right - DM would not agree to this.

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Thought as much. Nothing about the way DM has conducted the last few decades suggested she would.

POA definitely have their place, but the way the process works means they're not likely to function as protection against someone the person doesn't want protecting from.

Original poster

horseyhorsey17 · 27/02/2023 17:35

orchid220 · 27/02/2023 17:22

Are these the parents that “tried to palm her off on you” when you're younger and sent her to live with you during the holidays when you were at university, with no money so you ended up paying for the both of you. Have you ever considered that perhaps they are exaggerating about the help they give her and that's why she gives a different story?

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They did do that and god knows they're not perfect. Perhaps that's why she is how she is. But they're not lying about how much they help her out. If anything, they're underplaying it to me.

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