Sister lies about how much help our parents give her

[horseyhorsey17]

It's not so much an AIBU as a WWYD in my position. Me and my sister are both single mums with two kids. She lives near my parents, I don't. I work full time, she's never held down a job for more than six weeks in her life. University educated, clever, attractive, personable - but there's always a reason why she quits the job and then has a few months off. Last time it was because her boss was a paedo (she didn't have any evidence for this, it was just a 'feeling'.) The upshot of this is that my parents give her a lot of money. They 'loaned' her a lot to buy her house (which they won't get back) and they have to pay her mortgage most months. They don't want to but my mum is a soft touch as far as she's concerned, in fact probably she's the reason why my sister is the way she is. They also do loads of her childcare. I live miles away and don't get any of the same treatment, but I'm not really bothered (that's why I live miles away) but what does bother me is that my sister tries to gaslight me about this. I struggle to speak to her on the phone as it always come back to how hard done by she is, and how terrible mum and dad are, and how they're rich and why don't they give her more money. I just found out yesterday that they bought her a new washing machine as hers packed up. My last conversation with my sister was a couple of days ago and that wasn't mentioned at all. She also says mum and dad don't help with her childcare, but every time I ring them, her kids are at their house. It's just a really weird dynamic. I think she's on the narcissism spectrum and she definitely does try and manipulate people - perhaps unintentionally - but just wondered if anyone could shed light on what is going on here, and what if anything, I should do? I've never said to her 'I know they help you loads, stop lying' because I know it would lead to WW3.

I also worry a lot what's going to happen when my parents die (as they're in their late 70s now) and she becomes my problem! When her kids leave home and she doesn't get those benefit any more, how is she going to finance herself?

Please make sure they never make her power of attorney 😱

I see no earthly reason for "having it out" with the sister. What exactly would that accomplish?

I do think that you should get your father and brother on board with the POA issue. Explain that your wish is for your parents to live long, healthy lives but you are concerned that if either of them had health issues your sister could potentially push them into poverty.

I struggle to speak to her on the phone as it always come back to how hard done by she is, and how terrible mum and dad are, and how they're rich and why don't they give her more money.

Nuclear option.

Record her and play it back - in person - to your parents.
If she's lying to you, she's lying to everyone else too and painting them in a v poor light.

It will break their hearts, but in their shoes, I'd want to know.

It's not going to be easy for you or them if you do say something to them now.
It's also not your job to pick up the pieces in the future IYSWIM.

Same. Bring it on.

Assuming your parents' home is a significant part of their estate, then get your Dad to split it in half (so both he and your mum own half the house, rather than both owning it jointly - very easy to do), so that his will deals with his half as he wishes. He can still give your mum the right to live there until she passes/goes into a home, so it's not going to kick her out before she is ready, but it avoids your sister getting more than her share of your Dad's side and will stop her moving in with just your DM and trying to establish a right to live in the house too.
How old are her kids? If she split 10 years ago, the youngest must be at least 9 and potentially quite a bit older. How long till they leave? As they approach 18 they can decide they'd rather be with their Dad anyway, if that's an option for them. Just curious as to how long it might be till your sister is not entitled to much by benefits.

I think as your parents gets older, it becomes 2nd nature to try to fight their battles.

I think it's also more common if there was "parentification" going on in your childhood.

Assuming your parents' home is a significant part of their estate, then get your Dad to split it in half (so both he and your mum own half the house, rather than both owning it jointly - very easy to do), so that his will deals with his half as he wishes. He can still give your mum the right to live there until she passes/goes into a home, so it's not going to kick her out before she is ready, but it avoids your sister getting more than her share of your Dad's side and will stop her moving in with just your DM and trying to establish a right to live in the house too.

^This is an excellent idea.

Do your parents have to stay where they are? Could they be persuaded to move to be nearer you, or just further away from your sister? Retire to the coast or whatever.....

@BashirWithTheGoodBeard I appreciate what you’re saying, but given her actions to date, it’s not inconceivable that the sister would create a financial mess with her parents’ assets and THEN turn to the OP and her brother to bail her parents out, IYSWIM.

Most of us couldn’t see our parents in a desperate financial position, could we, so we’d feel obliged to do something. Better to ensure now that it can’t happen?

This is an extreme example, but one of my Dad’s friends had her house sold from under her as her son used it as collateral against debts-he’d forged her signature on paperwork, but she couldn’t bear to have him prosecuted so she didn’t expose him.

She’s now living in rented accommodation and barely able to manage financially. He’s an only child, there’s no other family to help her. ☹️

You have ignored countless questions about your other sibling. Where do they feature In all this?

It's your parents money and she is their problem.

You moved away so nowt to do with you tbh.

Your parents are their own worst enemies and are enabling her behaviour. My advice, stay out of it and don’t subscribe to their dysfunctional relationship. Every time that either party moan about the other, ignore it because only they have the power to change it.

I can see that it's annoying that they give her money and help with childcare and not you, but it's their money and their time and really nothing to do with you. I find your “concern” a bit fake as it's pretty obvious you are motivated by jealousy. She's obviously telling you one thing and they're telling you another but calling it “gaslighting” is a bit ridiculous.

The posters suggesting you get power of attorney are also being ridiculous. Why would they give you that if they are of sound mind?

@orchid220
Except OP says her Dad does not like it; and as people aged they do become more feeble in every sense, so the situation is not likely to improve.
And being in your late 40s and never having held a job for more than she weeks is very very odd.

Even if there was no problem whatsoever with the sister, the parents are at an age where the Powers of Attorney that have been mentioned are actually a really important thing for anyone to to consider, and it's too late to do it once the elderly person has, just for example, a debilitating stroke.

Unfortunately, too many people either know nothing about them, or delay sorting them out until it is too late.

My dad thought he had written a water tight Will too, especially to protect me against another sibling. She is currently suing me. We could both end up with nothing, but she will be happy then because I lose too. Please be careful

Power of Attorney has to be set up while a person is of sound mind, but it only comes into use when required.

What's being missed here is that sorting a POA now doesn't ensure that can't happen. Because it isn't a case of everyone signing, problem solved, permanent solution. People with capacity can revoke their POA any time they like.

You're putting a lot of faith in the DPs ongoing cooperation, DM especially, with any attempts to protect them. Let's say OP does talk them into a POA that doesn't include Dsis. In order for that to continue to be worth the paper it's written on, given the enmeshment and manipulation here, that either requires Dsis never to find out about it in the first place whilst they still have capacity or, if she does find out, for DPs to hold out against the inevitable attempts to get it changed. They could both still have capacity for decades, if they're only in their 70s.

How likely is this, really, given the dynamics and history here? These are not people who have shown any indication of being willing and able to assert the sort of boundaries that would be needed to set this up, keep it secret and resist any pressure if they don't manage the second part.

This is an appallingly enmeshed and enabling setup and there's no option that involves signing some paperwork to remove the possibility of it continuing to be so in decades to come. It's better for OP not to pretend that there is, and to protect herself accordingly.

They aren't going to both have a stroke or suddenly get dementia on the same day.

This.

Yes, @orchid220 , it has to be done while the individual still has capacity. No one likes to admit it, but for most people, their 80’s are when the serious health problems kick in, including Alzheimer’s and dementia. My MIL (81) is far less mentally sharp than she was even three years ago, DH and his siblings have all noticed it. She still has capacity, but it’s fading.

Yes, I agree that it is critical to put in place whatever legal protections are possible as soon as possible. But I am also concerned that the OP's parents have to consent to all those things, of course (and rightly so). So OP has to be prepared if they decide that, for instance, sister should get everything as she is 'less capable' or that asking for her share to be put into trust is silly and doommongering. That is a perfectly plausible scenario so the conversation needs to be handled carefully. Obviously OP knows best how her parents are likely to react and can do what she thinks is best.

Hugs to you, OP.

Nothing but sympathy from me.

I haven't read the whole thread but thought I'd say that I have a similar family dynamic with one of my siblings. It's my parents fault as they enabled it. I stay out of it as it's their money and their problem that they created. My parents recently asked me to be their power of attorney as they're getting their ducks in a row - I feel good about that because it means that I can protect them from any safeguarding concerns once they get to that stage.

After they're gone, my sibling will have their inheritance to live off. If they blow that, they're on their own and will need to get a job. I'm concerned that they have no pension etc as lack of work but I refuse to let them drain me as they have my parents!

Your sister will be entitled to a state pension, and possibly some additional benefits.

her dcs will probably be expected to look after her as adults.

she will be upset and plead poverty, which will all be someone else’s fault.

this will not be a problem you need to fix, and if she can’t be arsed worrying enough about her future to make changes now so she won’t be poor in old age, this is not your job to fix.

your parents have trained you to think it’s your job. It’s not. It’s also not your job to ensure they aren’t ripped off by her, it’s not your job to ensure they are secure in old age.

your job is to look after your own mental health and be a better parent to your children than your parents were to you and your siblings. They failed your sister, they failed you. They are literally paying for their mistakes now. This isn’t your job to fix.