Sister lies about how much help our parents give her

[horseyhorsey17]

It's not so much an AIBU as a WWYD in my position. Me and my sister are both single mums with two kids. She lives near my parents, I don't. I work full time, she's never held down a job for more than six weeks in her life. University educated, clever, attractive, personable - but there's always a reason why she quits the job and then has a few months off. Last time it was because her boss was a paedo (she didn't have any evidence for this, it was just a 'feeling'.) The upshot of this is that my parents give her a lot of money. They 'loaned' her a lot to buy her house (which they won't get back) and they have to pay her mortgage most months. They don't want to but my mum is a soft touch as far as she's concerned, in fact probably she's the reason why my sister is the way she is. They also do loads of her childcare. I live miles away and don't get any of the same treatment, but I'm not really bothered (that's why I live miles away) but what does bother me is that my sister tries to gaslight me about this. I struggle to speak to her on the phone as it always come back to how hard done by she is, and how terrible mum and dad are, and how they're rich and why don't they give her more money. I just found out yesterday that they bought her a new washing machine as hers packed up. My last conversation with my sister was a couple of days ago and that wasn't mentioned at all. She also says mum and dad don't help with her childcare, but every time I ring them, her kids are at their house. It's just a really weird dynamic. I think she's on the narcissism spectrum and she definitely does try and manipulate people - perhaps unintentionally - but just wondered if anyone could shed light on what is going on here, and what if anything, I should do? I've never said to her 'I know they help you loads, stop lying' because I know it would lead to WW3.

I also worry a lot what's going to happen when my parents die (as they're in their late 70s now) and she becomes my problem! When her kids leave home and she doesn't get those benefit any more, how is she going to finance herself?

Very well aware of this!

Yes ^

She's ASPD. It's not something she (or anyone else) can (or would even want to) change.
Your choice here is simple: learn about her particular type so you understand her better (which might really help - but is a massive undertaking) or cut her off (actually not as harsh as it sounds -even though it sounds harsh, sorry).
I know you have no reason to trust me, but honestly, she'll be fine just fine whatever happens / whatever you decide (It's you/your folks I'm more concerned for, ASPD's are remarkably strong/resilient).

As would I.

While I understand the worry for your parents OP, I think it might be in your best interests to just disengage in respect of finances. No power of attorney, no putting things in trust, just accept that what will be will be and none of it is going to be your problem.

I agree with this. The whole power of attorney thing - I don't feel like that's a road I want to go down, certainly not yet anyway.

she's never held down a job for more than six weeks in her life.

How did she secure a mortgage?

Sounds like your mother needs counselling to learn to deal with your sister. She is acting like a toddler/young child having a tantrum and your mother gives in. Your mother needs to learn to ignore your sister and her tantrums so she grows up. So she needs to let her calm down etc and not help until your sister figures things out and starts adulting.

This is a mystery to me too! I think my dad must have been a guarantor.

It's also possible she hasn't actually got a mortgage and my parents lent her the money and they just decided not to tell me that's what they've done. Wouldn't be the first time.

I understand your hesitation, OP, but it wouldn't affect your parents now, it's a safeguard for the future and would mean that you/your other sibling could be involved in any decisions regarding their needs - for example, your sister couldn't just stick them in a home if you and your other sibling have POA. I've got it for my Dad (85) and it's been invaluable now that he's moving to a retirement flat, it's meant that I can be kept informed.

If one of them suffers from even slight memory loss in a few years, for example, they'd be so vulnerable to financial abuse. If their bank has a certified copy of the POA on file though, all transactions can be questioned.

Would you rather be her? It sounds like she finds it impossible to enjoy life; nothing is ever fair or good enough and sounds like she's constantly looking outward and comparing herself to others, it sounds a miserable way to live. Who cares how much help you get if you can't appreciate any of it?

My mum helps me out in small but significant ways - a weekly activity for my DC, has us over once a week. I'm incredibly grateful but I'm grateful for most things. I don't have much but I feel happy and fulfilled and grateful (not in a subservient way, just happy with my lot). Life is all about mindset.

And as others have said that is not your problem, if not you run the risk of stepping in to fill the role left by your parents.

Does she have SN at all ? Maybe undiagnosed ADHD or suchlike . There are sadly quite a few people like this .What about your other sibling ,can they help at all.The thing is she needs a job, but if she cant/wont do anything then its out of your hands.Maybe step back and not let it get to you.Your DP need to speak to her but its rather late now! As an aside she cannot "have your DP in a home as soon as possible" there needs to be consent from them firstly ,and a place found also not easy either !

I have been in a very similar situation and similar felt like if nothing else it was not sustainable and what would happen if my parents died. I wish I had enlisted help to get my parents to see what was happening.

1. Get yourself therapy for the medium to long. This situation is a total headfuck and you need support if you are going to try to address it constructively.

2. There's no point trying to change your sister. Don't even bother going down that road.

3. You can try to talk to your parents but it might be best to talk to your sibling first (maybe after you have started therapy and got some clearer ideas).

4. Get professional help for those talks with your sibling and parents if possible. Like family therapy. If you are starting to challenge your parents thinking about your sister, it could be really really hard. And you might/probably need to have a (few) general talk(s) with them before you get down to the legal side.

This could all take ages, years, and you have someone who will ACTIVELY AND NOISILY resist any change to the status quo.

She isn't your problem. Not now or in the future. I have two nephews who are in a similar situation with their sister, my niece. Not the working part, but certainly she gets more childcare, trips, extra gifts that my nephews family does. Over the years they have just come to accept that their sister is just the favored child. They feel good about their own accomplishments and the fact that they don't need the endless support from their parents in the way my niece does. This attitude has gone a long way in keeping things civil and kept the family together.

@theoldhasgone Given that the OP's parents are already in their late 70's, I wouldn't bother trying to unpick the relationships at this point. All the OP can do is try to protect her parents from being financially exploited as they become frailer and potentially stuck in a home when they don't wish to be (hence the POA suggestion).

Honestly, people's health can change so quickly in their 80's, now is the time to safeguard their interests. There's nothing the OP can/or should feel obliged to do for her sister.

If they are buying her houses and paying the mortgage plus more, is there a chance they will end up broke?

I'd also be prepared to inherit nothing because they have given it all to her. Is that OK with you?

I think you either have to get more involved to protect them, or step away from it all.

I'm not sure how you can listen to her constant lies without saying something!

First the important bit: you do not need to inherit this problem unless you choose to.

Second my own experience, which is with my brother. My brother is a life long drug addict with extensive mh issues (and possibly a personality disorder to boot).

My parents supported my brother financially all his life until he was 40. My mum had long since wanted to stop but my dad just couldnt/wouldn't say no. It caused a lot of tension in their marriage to, to the point that they separated their finances (but didn't divorce).

When my father developed dementia his support of my brother morphed into financial abuse - it ended with my brother taking every penny he had, selling his possessions, threatening him for more money. At this point, with the help of police/gp/a solicitor my mum and I were able to get a restraining order against my brother and enact the financial poa for my dad. At that point the financial support stopped.

What happened next for my brother was having to sign on, periods of homelessness, some time in prison, a limited amount of addiction and mh support (much of which he failed to engage with) and finally (thanks to the probation service) some secure supported housing for people with complex mh needs. Through this I've provided intermittent support with accessing the correct level of benefits and 'dealing with the system' ,- when he lets me and when he'll take my advice (not often). We did originally help w money but stopped when we realised it went straight on drugs. We now pay for Netflix for him, pay a mobile phone account and top up his smart meter- all money goes direct to the companies involved. Its not a great arrangement but it allows him a level of comfort. The rest of his life is pretty chaotic.

The term "headfuck" is so appropriate for these situations. A very pertinent thread for a lot of us, I think. I also think as you get to peri-menopause, the ability to cope with what feels like seconday ptsd gets less.

It doesn't help if you get called oversensitive for pointing out the bloody obvious.

I think my DM likes having people reliant on her, like having a pet that she can both enable and moan about. Plus she has narc tendencies and I think she dangles inheritance as a lever.

I try to detach but I've had to live frugally and get by (tho it's all ok now), meanwhile feckless relative is oblivious to the chaos.

I'm seriously thinking of disappearing (another country, not anything sinister) as it's doing my head in that I am expected to put up, shut up and do all the bloody work.

Practical question, what's the appropriate type of therapy for complex toxic family situations?

She really seems to believe what she says. I don't know if this is a common thing with people with narcissistic tendencies. Once, I heard her recount a hilarious story of something that had happened in her childhood to her friends - it was clearly a story she'd told a lot of times. Only thing is, it hadn't happened to her at all - it had happened to me and was MY story. But she still told in front of me, and I think she actually believed now that it had happened to her. It makes it harder to argue with people who can lie to you with absolute, complete conviction.

I hadn't really factored the inheritance into my own plans for the future. While I'm not prepared just to roll over and let her have it, my family are long-lived so I have assumed my parents might need all their money to spend on their own care.

It's plain as day to an outsider reading your posts that your sister and your parents are using your goodwill and decent-hearted nature (which your sister has none of, and everyone knows it) to their own ends. They have different ends, but all three of them are using you to a greater or lesser extent.

Do you want to allow this? My parents are beginning to use me, but they're open about why and how and when, and I'm happy to let them do so at this stage of their lives. As such, it doesn't feel like using; it feels like an agreement to pass the baton, with them slowly handing over responsibility and the means by which I can carry out my necessary duties. What's missing in your family is the open dialogue.

The parent-child relationship is completely different to the sibling relationship (to state the obvious), but you've been given something of the former wrt your sister. I'd think very carefully about whether you want to allow that to continue, for when your sister is in her 50s, 60s, 70s; for when her children need help; she becomes unwell or sick (potentially); her next unsuitable partner milk her dry etc.

There's a long family backstory to all this but long story short; yes I was expected to parent both my siblings as a child, but particularly my sister.

Op you mention above there are 3 of you? What does your other sibling think or do about all this ?

Sorry but yes, you can back off and you don't have to inherit anything. You are, in your own way, being as enabling of this as your mother / parents are. It is your choice whether you continue to do that in the future.

Yes, they'd be vulnerable to financial abuse in this situation. And what? The OP has worries about boundaries and essentially inheriting this problem, and the parents also have a history of lumbering OP with the responsibility for Dsis.

People are recommending a POA essentially so OP can insert herself in this horrifying dynamic. So she can try and protect the finances of people who have already presumed on her goodwill and treated her badly, and who are ultimately responsible for her difficulties with boundaries. She would be better protecting herself by disengaging rather than settling in for what will no doubt be an incredibly damaging and testing fight.

And I think you get this OP, hence the reluctance to consider the POA now.

Just tell your parents to make it clear to your sis that the ppt of money once they die is what she's using now. If there's 300k and she's used 80, she only has 20 left. That will shock her into doing something. She'll whine of course "the others don't need it, why do they get the same as me?", but that's because you've worked for it...