How do you not get offended by school cliques?

[Purpleicing]

Could do with some advice to stop my confidence being more battered

4 years into school - son now year 3 - a once friendly group of mums in the class has developed into "the trendy confident ones" and "the rest of us"

The trendy ones not only invite each others children to the parties (at the exclusion of the children of the poor, the fat, the old, or the anxious), but have spend weekends on a 3 day partying spree - this weekend a bottomless brunch at a restaurant, one house party, and one day out at theme park with kids, all over social media

This in itself is just normal life I know, but what has riled me is that it doesn't stop them using the less trendy ones who don't get invited to play.

Specifically, we have a park holiday home which I have let a few people use for nothing or v little in past when everyone was more friendly across the whole class (think £20 for a long weekend) . Whole set of them asking to use it this summer already.

Other mums outside the clique I know do their fair share of help with after school pick ups and childcare

I'm also in an "approved profession" job and three times this week people have asked me for either legal advice or can you approve the passports (on my fifth lot of passport approval or 'can you sign my mortgage application' this month!)

My confidence is already battered, aibu to think jog on and find someone else to sign your bloody passports?

You walk into a room and there's a group of people you know well, have done a lot together and you know you'll have a good chat and a laugh with them, also a few people who you haven't spoken much beyond a quick "hello" but don't really know them and another couple of people who've you'd talked to a few times but not really got a link.

Which group would you choose to go and talk to?

I suspect almost everyone would go to the group they know well.

It's a different matter when you are in a place with one other person and you chat to them or no one.

I seem to be the sort of person people chat to. I get told all sorts of things that are quite confidential. I'm happy to chat to someone I haven't met. I can find common ground with almost anyone. I don't care if you're in the "trendy" group or not.
But on entering a room I'd still make decisions as to who to go up to. And a good amount of that would be on those who I get on best with. Those I would regard as friends.

@HelloOhHell

OP and anyone else that resonates with OP, your feelings are very very valid. Unfortunately lot of people are just exposing that they have zero empathy, but try to hide it under “the brutal nature of AIBU”

I think you’re missing the point here. Empathy is good. Absolutely everyone has experienced social isolation in some form at some stage of their lives. No one is exempt from that, however “confident” or “trendy” they are. There’s actually a lack of empathy and an arrogance in the attitude that only the introverts and anxious people can understand. A lot of superficially confident people have had to fight really hard for their confidence and are often masking themselves.

It’s not a question of empathy, it’s about identifying sinister motives in the behaviour of others because you see them behaving in certain ways in certain social situations. Assuming that there’s a “mean girls” script at work when two women have a conversation in a playground or arrange a drink outside school.

Trying to police the behaviour of other people in school related situations because you perceive them to be more confident than you is not fair. If you want to make more friends, take some ownership of your own lives. Deal with your demons and be aware that other people may be trying to hide theirs. You can’t expect to reduce everyone to bland, consensual “inclusive” behaviour because you are uncomfortable with their behaviour.

I had a close group of friends, we all met at baby group, toddler group and onwards. By the time the girls turned five we were firm friends, both at school and outside
We naturally gravitated to each other with a long shared history, although we never purposely excluded anyone and we chatted to many.

One of these friends had another friend who once told her she wouldn't talk to her in the yard as she was always with her 'clique' (us)

It really bothered me, I would never ever be purposely unfriendly or exclude anyone - none of the others would either.
I do think that if there has been enough of a friendship in the past for them to even know you have a caravan to let out, and they still feel comfortable enough to ask, then you may be being a little bit sensitive, and they may have no idea they are hurting you.

Oh fgs isn't this totally reasonable that you ask for holiday homes and passport signage etc without a little social grace in return? That's the exclusion bit that is a reasonable gripe I think. Breezily assuming that you get access to this stuff is socially deaf.

To be honest, I think the attitude I find on Mn, that it’s the ‘trendy and confident’’s job to be permanently on the lookout for anyone alone in the playground, to approach them and determine whether they actually want to be left alone or are desperately hoping for an invitation or conversation etc etc is a bit mad

Totally agree.

I am not trendy but I am confident and do chat to friends in the playground. On account of my lack of psychic powers, I have absolutely no idea if other random people want someone to talk to them. Heaven forbid a grown adult makes the effort with others.

And to be blunt - if other people are lovely for the 2 x 10 minute periods a day of the school run that’s not my problem. I have my own life, my own schedule, my own problems. I don’t have headspace for anyone else’s and I’m certainly not going to skip around the playground checking if miserable people the quiet ones want to talk to someone. Take responsibility for your own life FFS

You did say that, with your ‘keep it out of the playground’ mantra - that parents talking together at pick-up is ‘performative’ and implied that they should either talk to everyone or no-one.

Two issues are being conflated here.

It’s somehow being assumed that women who have school Mum friends, and who they see and chat to at pick up, and also engineering friendships and refusing play dates with children who aren’t the children of their friends.

While I’m sure this does happen in a minority of cases, it’s not widespread, let alone across the board.

And it’s no reason to police women’s interaction with other women, and insist they only speak to all other women or none of them.

Well you sound nice and approachable

To be fair, I don’t think the pp really cares whether she seems ‘nice and approachable’ - and fair enough.

People have their own lives going on, spinning plates, rushing to work, juggling everything going on in their lives.

Why is pressure being put on one group of people to do ALL the leg work in the playground. To do all the saying hello, all the approaching, all the inviting, all the including.

The point is, it’s up to everyone to to do what they need to do. Instead of seething at the group of friends chatting, go up to someone by themselves and start a conversation.

You (generic) do it.

What makes you think that I find it hard to socialise? In normal circumstances my child does 8-6 so I don’t really get to see most parents.

However I can and do see exactly what OP and other parents see with the exception I don’t let it get to me, it means nothing in the grand scheme of things.

I have no issues talking to anyone, but I also have friends, and hear of friends of friends that get really het up about this very same topic. They’re not making it up and it’s not in their heads.

Then there are the subgroups from the main class WhatsApp groups, parent socials in locations that are not suitable for the wider parent community to name a few other ways some parents feel excluded. There are endless issues when it comes to playground politics. Let’s not get silly now.

How many times does this exact same topic come up on MN for it just to be “friendships”. What low level vibes are these “friendship groups” giving off.

When I was new in town with a toddler I went to every playgroup going and launched myself at other mums. Quite a few knock backs and 🙄 😀 but I found my tribe eventually. Still friends 15 years on. Gotta put yourself out there.

Hopefully not. I just want to talk to my friends not other people I don’t know

It’s very telling that people are assuming I’m introverted/antisocial, because I’m coming from a place of basic human understanding??? Weird. 🤡🤡🤡🤡

The holiday home thing is a little odd but I think it’s also odd that you are offering this to people you barely know / don’t particularly like.

I’ve signed passport applications for loads of people over years and I’ve asked loads of people to do mine / my DCs - generally the first person I see that day that fulfills the criteria. Some might be friends, others passing acquaintances. It’s hardly a big ask and I don’t think people owe me a friendship because I spend 2 minutes counter signing their application but if you don’t want to do it… don’t.

I have friends at my DC’s school. We met because of DC but have formed genuine friendships and that’s fantastic as far as I’m concerned. As long as all parents can be polite and cordial to each other I think that’s fine. Not everyone will be friends.

To be honest, I think the attitude I find on Mn, that it’s the ‘trendy and confident’’s job to be permanently on the lookout for anyone alone in the playground, to approach them and determine whether they actually want to be left alone or are desperately hoping for an invitation or conversation etc etc is a bit mad.

I agree, and I'm not one of those types. I suppose it never particularly occurred to me to think of the school gates as a place to find friendship. I exchanged a bit of small-talk while standing next to parents I recognised, but no more than that. I wouldn't have wanted friendship groups trying to encourage me into their group tbh.

But sub-dividing people into “popular” and “anxious” as if they were two species is doing exactly that. I know you didn’t use those words to characterise the situation, the OP did.

But it betrays the same basic assumption which is that “confident” people (who may not actually be that confident, but people who are able to talk to others) owe it to the less “confident” people to be constantly vigilant against any sign that alliances are forming and to make sure everything is always perfectly egalitarian.

Of course people should be decent and considerate and not go out of their way to exclude other parents or their children. But people who don’t make friends at school are not usually being singled out. People are entitled to make friendships where they can find them and others are not automatically entitled to be part of that group by default.

Its a bizarre entitlement that assumes the normal rules of society don’t apply just because you are on school premises.

Again, I have compassion for people who find this difficult and stressful but it simply is not an excuse to write people off as “bitches” because they are finding it easier than you.

cont
I do have empathy. I'm not a social butterfly. I don't have a big group of mum friends at the gate, but happy to chat to people or drop a run depending on the day.

I also have limited patience for people viewing other adults' friendships as cliques, trendy bitchy school mums, writing off everyone outside the so called ' ' group in negative language that says more about the person than the fact that some parents happen to have formed a friendship.
As someone who isn't in a big group of mum friends (or as some would say clique), I'd be substantially more pissed off at someone deciding I'm too fat/poor/anxious/old because I'm not in what they perceive to be a trendy clique than I am a bunch of mums being friends.

I already said up thread to the OP that stopping the holiday home favour would be a good idea as well.

Ultimately we have a choice as adults whether we're going to look at ourselves/ our outlooks honestly or not, and we have a choice about whether we want to work on our outlooks or not.

Then there are the subgroups from the main class WhatsApp groups, parent socials in locations that are not suitable for the wider parent community to name a few other ways some parents feel excluded. There are endless issues when it comes to playground politics.

Only if you frame it that way in your head. What's wrong with whatsapp subgroups with kindred spirits who happened to meet at at school drop off discussing non-school related things or a few people doing things that are not suitable for everyone to attend? I can't think of no other situation where a large group of people thrown together for an arbitrary reason would be expected to only do things en mass and not be 'allowed' to form closer relationships with other individuals.

You say playground politics but others would just see a bunch of people living their lives not realising that their every move at school pick was being watched and judged 🤷‍♀️

Only if you frame it that way in your head. What's wrong with whatsapp subgroups with kindred spirits who happened to meet at at school drop off discussing non-school related things or a few people doing things that are not suitable for everyone to attend?
Agreed.
If friends having separate whatapp groups is wrong, do these people really think a conversation between 3-5 parents about like gardening, cocktails or a particular TV show should be conducted in a huge WhatsApp where most of the other members are only expecting convenient school chat? Is there an obligation to share your thoughts about last night's Gogglebox and your Saturday cocktail plans with 30 other parents because you happened to give birth within 12 months of each other?

School Mum friendships are held to a completely different standard from all other friendships.

It’s actually really interesting - and this thread has been enlightening to unpick why that is.

It’s also been a really refreshing change - normally when someone posts about ‘cliques’, they get the vast majority of posters coming on to validate their grievances, and labelling other women as ‘bitches’, ‘cows’, Queen Bees’, etc. (the same people who always wonder why they’re not included, interestingly enough not).

This thread has been different - and I think it’s really important to question why we do hold ‘Mum friend’ friendships to a completely different standard from ALL other friendships.

This.

The whole 'school mums' things baffles me. I see it on here all the time.

Totally agree with this. Find your people

So are you allowed to be in a friendship group if you are fat, dress frumpy and are anxious?

Its just unacceptable if you’re trendy, slim and confident?

Two fat and anxious people talking in a playground is a friendship. Two slim and confident ones is a sinister attempt at social engineering.

Very telling how some posters have been almost apologetic about being part of a friendship group, but hoping they don’t come in for the wrath of the aggrieved by saying they’re ‘dowdy’ or some such.

Honestly, this whole phenomenon is a case study into a fascinating aspect of human nature.

The dowdy crafty mums are a friendship group. The never invite me! We say hello when we pass in the coffee shop and that’s it can’t imagine wishing them ill!