How do you not get offended by school cliques?

[Purpleicing]

Could do with some advice to stop my confidence being more battered

4 years into school - son now year 3 - a once friendly group of mums in the class has developed into "the trendy confident ones" and "the rest of us"

The trendy ones not only invite each others children to the parties (at the exclusion of the children of the poor, the fat, the old, or the anxious), but have spend weekends on a 3 day partying spree - this weekend a bottomless brunch at a restaurant, one house party, and one day out at theme park with kids, all over social media

This in itself is just normal life I know, but what has riled me is that it doesn't stop them using the less trendy ones who don't get invited to play.

Specifically, we have a park holiday home which I have let a few people use for nothing or v little in past when everyone was more friendly across the whole class (think £20 for a long weekend) . Whole set of them asking to use it this summer already.

Other mums outside the clique I know do their fair share of help with after school pick ups and childcare

I'm also in an "approved profession" job and three times this week people have asked me for either legal advice or can you approve the passports (on my fifth lot of passport approval or 'can you sign my mortgage application' this month!)

My confidence is already battered, aibu to think jog on and find someone else to sign your bloody passports?

Yeah, some people are coming across as the mean girl clique here. Op is unhappy that these other mums are using her for favours, she feels rejected and admits her confidence is 'already battered' from other things.

Other posters are trying to support her by saying that ' you don't need them etc' which is true. Doesn't mean they're saying 'never socialise outside of your household'.

It is hard to make friends as an adult. I hate the pettiness that it isn't just because you personally haven't found it to be the case - likely because many of your friends stem from school/college/uni even it's much easier. Or you had a happy upbringing with decent parents, or weren't bullied and had your self esteem crushed.

Even if there are some people who have an attitude against friendships, I say leave them to it. It's their prerogative but there's no need to pick on op or others who don't find it so easy or may have anxiety.

I don't think they're a clique, they clearly just prefer each other, but I can see how it's upsetting if you already feel down about yourself that people only want to talk to get free advice and that's it.

But the hard truth of the matter is that as an adult in charge of a child, you have a responsibility not to allow your hangups about what happened to you as a child not to prevent your children learning to form their own friendships and fight their own battles. If you project everything as a battle against the "school cliques" you're shoring up a whole heap of trouble for your own children

This also works the other way, when you control your children's friendships to stop them mixing with the "wrong sort".

By "wrong sort" I don't mean kids who will get your kids into trouble.

I mean kids whose parents (you perceive) don't earn enough, or don't drive a posh enough car or whose house isn't impressive enough for your aspirations.

@lieselotte

This also works the other way, when you control your children's friendships to stop them mixing with the "wrong sort".

Of course. Social engineering by parents of their children's friendships is usually a bad idea.

But we're not talking about screening of child friendships, we're talking about situations where every social interaction between one parent and another parent on school premises is perceived as a "clique" or "bitchy" or an attempt to exclude another child.

A PP actually said parents should restrict themselves from having social interaction with other parents at school in order to avoid this. Its the idea that socialising by parents with other parents at school is inherently sinister or "sharp-elbowed" or exclusive.

Just some ramblings

When we are at school (or nursery) we first know no one, then we usually make friends and play then hang out with them mostly

We leave school start college/uni/work possibly make new fiends then hang out with them

We join evening, exercise, art classes etc. we make friends and usually stick with them

We go to events/parties again friends

How many times do we seek out strangers deliberately we tend to stick to people we know more closley

@cont

I don't disagree that the OP owes no favours whatsoever to these women and I think she's well within her rights to say no.

I just really dislike the emotive, stereotyping language used: "trendy and confident" women who dare to be seen talking at the school gates and "fat and anxious" if they keep themselves to themselves. It's so reductive and insulting, to both groups.

In any other area of life this would rightly be called out as bigotry but because its the dog-whistle topic of "bitchy school mums" it brings a pile-on of people saying "ooh, yes, nasty bitches" and "block them, delete them". Based on nothing except one person's highly biased view. It's like a modern day witch hunt.

I’m always open to new friendships with interesting people. I got on extremely well with a taxi driver on a long, traffic-delayed ride with my son last week. We turned out to have worked for the same newspaper decades ago, and he’s a writer and short filmmaker and active on the local poetry scene — we exchanged numbers and are going to meet at a poetry event in a couple of weeks.

Yes that is how we make new friends by talking to strangers but once friendships are established people tend to navigate towards

Yes there is lots of people out there who say 'well I always talk to strangers I deliberately look for them' or whatever but everyone I know usubut not always tends to have a pattern where they stick with people they know

Secure confident person sees a group of friends. Insecure bitter person sees a clique.

This is mainly about you OP and your self-esteem I reckon, not them.

Though I hate doing passport applications and tend to try and get out of it.

Agreed. It’s really reductive to both sets of people. Nothing the OP has said on this thread suggests any bad behaviour by the ‘trendy, confident’ women, other than them socialising with one another now, rather than the whole class, as they did when the children were newly at school. Someone asked for the use of her caravan, but she’s happily allowed them to use it at a subsidised rate before, so it’s hardly a particularly entitled request, and it’s one she’s obviously entitled to refuse now that her feelings about them have changed, ditto signing passports or professional advice.

I don’t use sm myself, but for those who do, it’s presumably hardly unusual to post about your social activities, without realising someone is noting your fellow-partiers and taking their lack of invitation as a personal slight?

It’s hardly a crime to move from whole class situations to developing closer friendships with some of the other parents, who are obviously up for a lot of weekend socialising, when other people don’t have the time or inclination?

To be honest, I think the attitude I find on Mn, that it’s the ‘trendy and confident’’s job to be permanently on the lookout for anyone alone in the playground, to approach them and determine whether they actually want to be left alone or are desperately hoping for an invitation or conversation etc etc is a bit mad, and takes the onus off the person themselves to make approaches or take action — especially if this is all happening at breakneck speed because of going to work.

I think my school friendship group is genuinely welcoming to newcomers (we’ve had a fair few Ukrainians joining the school lately), but after an initial coffee or chat, it does come down to whether or not I actually like you and want to see more of you. Of the last two new people who came for coffee, one is wonderful and now comes out for drinks sometimes when she’s not away for work, and the other (invited to an early dinner with our collective children during the Christmas holidays) turned out to be spectacularly dreadful in a number of ways, so I’ve turned down invitations to see more of her, and reverted to just saying hello.

I have seen people say when their kids start school, ‘I drop and go, I am not here to make friends! I don’t need any friends from my kids’ school’ etc. I think it’s a defence due to a fear of not fitting in.

And there is also a weird sense of pride, especially since the pandemic to say, ‘I hate other people’ which always makes me
roll my eyes at the lack of awareness.

Of course bitchy and mean people exist. But most groups of women are not like this and it’s unfair to brand them as such, simply because they found each other in the playground.

I have always worked. But I was still friendly and smiled as I dropped and picked my kids. Made an effort at school events. Did play dates. My kids made friends and I became closer to those mums. Not because any of us was popular or ‘trendy’ or showing off. But because we had something in common via our kids and we found we quite liked each other. Our kids have all left home now and many of the school parents are now our friends for life.

Don’t turn your back on school parent relationships due to defensiveness or fear. It’s useful to get on with other parents. They can help in an emergency. My sahm friends helped me so much over the years. And I reciprocated when I could. I think relaxing some defences, being pleasant and polite could pay dividends. In any case, it’s a healthier mindset than being bitter and jealous.

Honestly, I think the idea that making friends is a horrifying chore or a political act of canny self-interest is one that is over-represented on Mn, which has a very high proportion of people who say they are socially anxious, regard social situations with fear and stress, don’t like answering their doors or doing the school run, regard friendships with a very jaundiced eye as unnecessary ‘drama’, and yet often say they’re lonely or friendless
Agree with this.
It doesn't seem surprising that people who view social interactions as a chore, won't answer the door, judge other people for forming friendships (whilst making no effort themselves) also the people who don't have friends, are lonely and complain that they haven't got a support network.

Some people are social butterflies and thrive on social events and relationships, others are friendly, get on with people and have a smaller circle of friends. Both these groups seem to have people who'd do them favours, and they'd also do favours.

There was a thread about support networks on here and a poster hit the nail on the head when they said that it takes time and effort to cultivate interpersonal relationships, so people shouldn't be surprised if they're all alone as their little family when they don't bother with other people.

@LolaSmiles you need to have more empathy.

Why might socialising be a chore? Fear of rejection, anxiety about your appearance, worried that nobody likes you. Feeling you don't fit in because of income, background etc.

Where might these feelings come from? Abusive parents or relationships. Being bullied at school. Physical differences, mental illness, all kinds of adverse experiences.

Why might someone feel bothered by other people? In op's case, because she has tried to socialise and feels like she's just being used when they want something. Maybe it is just 'insecurity and bitterness' but a bit of compassion wouldn't go amiss.

Have been on both sides. I've been on both sides and thought like this. Life has brought me down a peg or two.

Posts like this don't help anybody. You definitely wouldn't feel enthused to go and socialise after reading some of the posts on here. And none of them come from a good place.

Nah mate, I didn’t say anyone should restrict themselves and not talk to their friends. If that’s directed at me.

I said, and continue to maintain, that in a school setting, children’s friendships should be allowed to develop without the adults deciding that their child should only play with the children in their particular group, and that all other playdate invitations should be refused or ignored. Which absolutely does happen, and is almost certainly the cause of 99% of the angst about school mum “cliques”.

Stop making things up.

Excellent post!! You’ve honestly worded the situation perfectly.

I do feel for people who don’t enjoy cultivating friendships and resent those who do - what a miserable life.

YABU to call other mums 'the fat, the anxious, the poor'. Get a hold of yourself for fuck's sake!

A 'clique' is a bitchy way of saying 'a group of friends'. People are allowed to form friendship groups and socialise with them, there's no obligation to be friends with all other 30 parents in a class just to avoid upsetting someone and triggering nasty facebook posts. If you get asked a favour and don't want to do it or reserve that sort of favour for actual friends simply say no, it's not difficult.

The gaslighting about school mum cliques not being a thing is so weird to me. I clearly remember it as a child and I see it now as a mum. I don’t really care as it’s not something I usually need to navigate (mat leave so no need for breakfast/after school club right now so I see it, but still don’t care though). Your feelings are valid OP

Oh dear OP I don't think this thread will have helped your confidence.

I think as social beings you will have people right across the "social spectrum" from extremely shy and/or anxious, through to confident and/or loud.

There isn't a "right" kind of personality to have - and don't beat yourself up for not being like someone else. You may find that you thrive socially in different situations, the school gates may just not be your place to do it - again nothing wrong with that!

A bit of a random question but how are your hormones/periods etc?

I'm more confident at certain times of the month, and basically a week before my period would feel anxious and less rational on all sorts of things.

I don't think people have been kind to you on this thread.

As social beings a fear of rejection is real, some people can cope with this better than others.

It may be worth examining if/why your self worth is tied up in school mums/this group of women. If so, I would take a moment to think or write down why this might be, and what you can do to improve your view on the situation and build your confidence.

Remember we are all different - and drawn to different people, some people can quickly strike up friendships, other people may take a bit longer etc. no one way is better than another.

Oh and mute them on social media. It is scientifically proven that social media affects mental health. You may find this is all you need to stop that negative voice in your head.

Oh no. They think they’re the Motherland lot. 🙄😆

What is the difference between a clique and a genine friendship group? I am part of a group of mums at school, we go to a pub quiz once a week and are going up to London in a few weeks for a day out.

We did a whole class drink and off the back of that, I arranged further drinks with the mums I got on particularly well with. It is too umweildy to go out as 20+ mums en mass all the time.

What is to stop you arranging things with the mums you like? Does it have to be only with the cool trendy ones?!

Please don’t use gaslighting when you mean contradiction, it does abused women a disservice.

How did you distinguish groups of friends from cliques as a child?

I have groups of Mum friends.

Hopefully it's ok as we're mostly a bit dowdy and our DCs are no longer pals. I'd prefer not to post on social media at all about our trips as we go away once a year, but one friend does post a few photos.
It's hard enough organising 5 of us never mind asking everyone.

Not sure who you think you’re talking to like that, but I used a term that can be used to describe friendships, intimate relationships, workplace relationships.

in short, i said what I said. Nice chat though.

OP and anyone else that resonates with OP, your feelings are very very valid. Unfortunately lot of people are just exposing that they have zero empathy, but try to hide it under “the brutal nature of AIBU”. 🙄

I can see from this why you’d find socialising hard.

i don’t think gaslighting means what you think it means.