Incels

[Theninetieswerebetter]

Is anyone watching ‘Untold’ on Channel 4?

I worry for my DD’s future

You utter fool

When you look at the shit men have put women through historically, how they controlled us, abused us, took our voices and achievements and enslaved us, it’s pretty incredible that we didn’t all turn into murderers, yet men can’t seem to handle the tiniest changes and input to their ‘rules’, or they fall apart.
Seems men to learn some resilience.

It's fully internalized toxic masculinity to a fault.

I find it's a common misconception that this term means men - especially men with so-called 'masculine' traits, are toxic. The perpetuation of these narrow, reductive stereotypes and dismissal of all men who don't meet their machismo, alpha male standards are somehow lacking, is what toxic masculinity really is. The incel movement is no small perpetuator of this idiocy, and the one on this thread has swallowed it hook and bait.

Men who are secure and 'successful' don't fear not living up to these regressive stereotypes.

And it's all another very good example of why the manufactured social construct known as 'gender' is a bunch of BS.

He sounds gorgeous - you lucky wumman!

Do you control his masculine manliness by the covert addition of soy milk into his daily diet? Just enough to stop him thoroughly battering you and devouring his own children?
😄

It’s pure male entitlement, they hate women having a choice.

<spits out tea>

😂😂😂

''@GothicViolence · Today 00:16
The incel movement is what happens when a generation of young men are told to act in a less masculine way, only to find out that society finds feminine men off-putting. At they save time they find that their peers who didn’t let themselves be brow beaten into ignoring their programming do better in every metric.''

Gibberish.

People like you, who have stereotypical views of how men should act, are a part of the problem. Not to mention your obvious disgust as anything that could be deemed ''feminine''...

Incels are a product of a toxic combination of the anonymity of the internet allowing people to parrot extreme views and the ongoing inability of too many men to respect women as human beings and who still see them as objects who are put on earth to please and serve men.

I think there is a biological aspect to all of this too...

Statistically we do have have more female ancestors than male. Good looking men have always fathered more children with more women, and many men will die without having fathered any children.

Also women's perspective of male attractiveness tends to be very skewed in that women tend to rate more men as "below average". And so the truly below average get rated very harshly.

So I think it's fair to say that incels have always existed. The only difference now is that rather than these men being invisible, they congregate online and create very angry and bitter communities which occasionally attracts media coverage.

I think saying that "all these men need to do is improve their personalities" is missing the bigger picture. We do tend to treat people differently based on how they look. Plenty of people report that they notice they are treated better when they are slimmer, fitter, or notice changes in how they are treated as they get older or if they have a physical or learning disabilities.

Likewise, not all of these young men have the ability to become highly successful or socially enigmatic in order to become more attractive. A couple of other posters have mentioned that a lot of these young men appear to have autism. Which, if true, will also weaken their ability to succeed socially or professionally.

So I can very much believe that these young men probably have been treated poorly and experienced rejection by their peers and romantic interests. This could be enormously damaging to their development especially if such treatment starts early in life.

I don't think we can do anything to change this reality either, as women aren't about to change their selection criteria and I don't think society is going to stop judging and treating people differently by appearances.

The incel communities are toxic and hateful and it is instinctive to hate them back. But I try to have a bit of empathy for them. They are clearly struggling and you have to wonder what their life experiences to this point have been like to make them this way.

Did you watch the programme last night.
I cannot imagine you would have quite so much empathy for them if you had.The website where a woman was decapitated with a machete and another was suffocated in a plastic barrel was a particular low point.

It is different though having a place where their abhorrent and actually dangerous views towards women are validated and amplified. All of the things you have said also apply to women, they aren't exclusive to men- or are we suggesting men aren't ever shallow regarding appearance?

Also women's perspective of male attractiveness tends to be very skewed in that women tend to rate more men as "below average"

You know how these incels like to go on about man’s ‘true nature’ hunting mammoth and all that shit? Well that’s women’s nature. Women make far more of an investment when they have sex, so we’re programmed to be more picky, again, it’s reflected in nature.
So maybe these incels need to accept nature isn’t a one way street? And news flash, but girls get rejected too! Why are we pretending it’s so much worse for boys?

I really did wonder if Gothic was parodying for a while there...
This 'single mums produce incels' rhetoric. Are we sure it isn't because the dad in question is a complete arsehole (probably why they split up) and has access to the kids every weekend to fill the teenage boys' heads with this nonsense?

@Simonjt you got there before me replying to that one! I was going to ask Gothic if he thinks there are only two types of men: 'white' and 'Islamic' (and no overlap don't you know... 🙄)

Fucking hell. They’re a step away from the Taliban.

Surely someone is taking the piss. No one can be that stupid, can they?

@Emotionalsupportviper
c) Bullying men displaying "toxic masculinity" aren't "strong" men. They are men lacking emotional intelligence and maturity.

^^ This. A hundred times, this.

Good grief not another one.

So I think it's fair to say that incels have always existed. The only difference now is that rather than these men being invisible, they congregate online and create very angry and bitter communities which occasionally attracts media coverage.

No, the difference is that now they're getting together to egg each other on to murder women and girls, and some of them are succeeding. Not sure why or how you're feeling so sorry for people who think murder, torture and rape is the answer to their problems, no matter how those problems were caused.

Funny how there's so much rhetoric about "women's selection processes" and "focus on looks/physique", as though women are never assessed harshly by men or valued by their looks alone.

This, although I'd say men that are secure and not necessarily successful are fearless.

My OH has done ok for himself. I asked him what it means to be a man and he said that he doesn't know and doesn't really care. Being a decent human being is all that really matters. Doing what's necessary to be a decent father/husband/colleague/citizen is what's important, not some idea of manliness.

I'd say the same for women. The sooner we can raise children that are secure in themselves, the better. And get rid of the idea that being a man or woman means anything.

Gothicarsewipe doesn't see himself as an incel, he sees himself as an alpha.

Both are inextricably linked and rooted in toxic entitlement.

Weak men that fear they will be overwhelmed by loss of privileged misogyny

Ugh you are really grim. Toxic male traits are not attractive, they give us the ICK.

I’m watching it now and yeah it’s disturbing.

Incels not only feel they are entitled to women for sex, they believe they are entitled to what they perceive as beautiful women for sex.

If they were that desperate for women, they would go for the so called femcels. Then both situations would be solved wouldn’t it

Agreed. I think that depends how you measure 'success'.

No one thinks on their deathbed that they wished they'd spent more time at work. And after your time has come, unless you're J K Rowling, Stephen Hawking, Anita Roddick or Steve Jobs, you largely won't be remembered for any of your professional accomplishments.

Your DH sounds as though he has his head screwed on.

It's male entitlement really. Incels never say they want any woman. It's they want young beautiful virgin 4 foot 11 and 6 stone. There's many women out there who can't get a long term partner but don't resort to violence.
Elliot Rogers was not an ugly man but had an entitled vile personality.

@GothicViolence
’The guys that work in “the city” making a shit tonne of money, apart from being good at maths what traits do they have?’

connections mainly. And many of them are shit at maths by the way. It’s all bravado and algorithms. Also, you may not have heard this as I assume you don’t leave the house much, but lots of women work in finance now too.

Yes, sorry. I wasn't being intentionally disagreeable. I guess I just interpreted success as financial but it could be anything really, so you're quite right.

Yes, OH definitely has his head screwed on. He's special to me but ultimately not special (if that makes sense), which makes it quite sad that more people lack any security in themselves. It shouldn't be that difficult but it seems to elude so many people.

Society really needs to help these people, as distasteful as it may sound, as we all suffer otherwise.

Incels are claiming women all want ‘chads’ yet I am surrounded by women whose partners are Scott from IT, or Nick in marketing or Sam who works in the training dept or sales.
They all seem happy enough with nice,
ordinary looking men who have a ok paid job, go to home matches on a Saturday and take the kids swimming on a Sunday and do their share of house/ life/ kids stuff.