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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Incels

311 replies

Theninetieswerebetter · 26/02/2023 22:37

Is anyone watching ‘Untold’ on Channel 4?

I worry for my DD’s future

OP posts:
BellePeppa · 27/02/2023 08:11

ConfusedNT · 27/02/2023 00:38

No the incel movement is what happens when some men realise that now that women don't have to rely on men for social and financial reasons, men actually have to be decent men to attract women, and instead of being decent they decided to bitch about how women should still be relying on them instead

Meanwhile men who are decent men are still getting women and that really pisses them off. Because that means that womens emancipation hasn't stopped women getting together with men, it's just stopped them getting together with/staying with the bad ones. And that means they would have to do something about their behaviour and that's hard. So it's easier to bitch about women instead.

If only it were true that men have to be decent to attract and keep women. If MN is anything to go by you can be the most abusive, toxic male and the woman still stays with them! It’s very disheartening. I don’t know much about incels (only recently heard about them re mass shootings) but I get the impression they join communities who encourage and feed on each other’s insecurities and resentments. A lot of them were, or are, perfectly capable of having relationships if only they extricated themselves from those very communities that validate their resentments.

KattyKattyKatz · 27/02/2023 08:13

. Incels need to work on their personality and confidence . That's what attracts women , not moody self pity

SchoolTripDrama · 27/02/2023 08:15

TooBigForMyBoots · 27/02/2023 01:01

I watched the show. The incels seemed to be maladjusted men with learning difficulties.

THIS. Some very angry little men

Ceryneianhind · 27/02/2023 08:17

GothicViolence · 27/02/2023 00:16

The incel movement is what happens when a generation of young men are told to act in a less masculine way, only to find out that society finds feminine men off-putting.

At they save time they find that their peers who didn’t let themselves be brow beaten into ignoring their programming do better in every metric.

What do you mean by this? Who is being brow beaten? Do you mean that men who are being brought up to respect others and not be arseholes?

SchoolTripDrama · 27/02/2023 08:17

@Idkrealorfake So you stopped drinking soy milk and got a job in the city? And then laid? Or ...

Hahahahahahaha!

Hollyhocksarenotmessy · 27/02/2023 08:17

Cool, another reason to add to the list of why idiot people hate me because I work in HR.

Re missing fathers, how were the post world war generations not turned into incels by their widowed mothers?

Naunet · 27/02/2023 08:18

GothicViolence · 27/02/2023 00:49

All fair enough questions.

Millennials and Gen Z

Its been a political push from the elites to subdue the west, they did this by me forcing the politics of the HR department onto wider society.

It depends on the household but the indoctrination starts at home, absentee fathers are a huge problem, it takes men to raise men.

The introduction of seed oils and soy into the modern diet has also caused testosterone levels to plummet.

The programming that meant men in the Stone Age could hunt the mammoth.

Any metric you can think of; career, interpersonal relationships, health, wealth..

😂 this is hilarious.

Firstly, women hunted too. I know men like to pretend they didn’t, so they can feel extra strong and manly, but we did. There’s no other species of animal where the females can’t hunt and feed themselves, so don’t be so arrogant as to paint yourselves as some kind of hero. Men denying women did this though, hasn’t turned us into incels - weird that.

Same applies to your ‘it takes men to raise men’ theory - nowhere else in nature does such an arbitrary rule apply, you may be bigging up your part again lads?

You also fail to mention porn, you don’t think that factors in at all, it’s just the seeds and soy impacting younger generations??

PuddlesPityParty · 27/02/2023 08:18

@GothicViolence im just wondering how on earth you know so many incles if, as you say, you’re not one yourself?

PuddlesPityParty · 27/02/2023 08:18

*incels 🙄

Emotionalsupportviper · 27/02/2023 08:20

GothicViolence · 27/02/2023 00:16

The incel movement is what happens when a generation of young men are told to act in a less masculine way, only to find out that society finds feminine men off-putting.

At they save time they find that their peers who didn’t let themselves be brow beaten into ignoring their programming do better in every metric.

No.

The intel movement is what happens when a generation of men gets drawn into extreme online porn that leads them to believe that women are not people, but just convenient orifices who should be prepared to offer and accept every degradation for their sexual pleasure.

That's why it happens.

If they would tear themselves away from the damaging filth on their screens and get into the real world we would ALL be a lot happier and safer - including them.

PuddlesPityParty · 27/02/2023 08:20

Naunet · 27/02/2023 08:18

😂 this is hilarious.

Firstly, women hunted too. I know men like to pretend they didn’t, so they can feel extra strong and manly, but we did. There’s no other species of animal where the females can’t hunt and feed themselves, so don’t be so arrogant as to paint yourselves as some kind of hero. Men denying women did this though, hasn’t turned us into incels - weird that.

Same applies to your ‘it takes men to raise men’ theory - nowhere else in nature does such an arbitrary rule apply, you may be bigging up your part again lads?

You also fail to mention porn, you don’t think that factors in at all, it’s just the seeds and soy impacting younger generations??

Indeed, perhaps they need to read invisible women. Although I’m sure they won’t.

WiIson · 27/02/2023 08:21

What a deeply unpleasant thread.

SchoolTripDrama · 27/02/2023 08:22

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Can we not blame Autism please? Being an INCEL is NOT a symptom or result of being Autistic ffs!

Basecampzero · 27/02/2023 08:22

GothicViolence · 27/02/2023 00:49

All fair enough questions.

Millennials and Gen Z

Its been a political push from the elites to subdue the west, they did this by me forcing the politics of the HR department onto wider society.

It depends on the household but the indoctrination starts at home, absentee fathers are a huge problem, it takes men to raise men.

The introduction of seed oils and soy into the modern diet has also caused testosterone levels to plummet.

The programming that meant men in the Stone Age could hunt the mammoth.

Any metric you can think of; career, interpersonal relationships, health, wealth..

This is such a load of old rubbish. You've really swallowed the whole incel guidebook, haven't you. You really need to read and re-read ConfusedNT's post.

What are the politics of the HR department? It's not even a thing. HR departments aren't some mass movement, 🙄. They reflect society's beliefs not the other way around.

If anything, there's been a combination of women wanting to take an active part in public life, and men no longer wanting to carry all the load and to have equal, fulfilling relationships. There may be some inadequates who can't take the idea of equality and need to be king of the household to prop up their flagging identities. But it does not mean that we design the whole of society around them.

I largely brought up both of my male children. They are perfectly in touch with their masculinity and find no problem finding lovely girlfriends. Largely because they are neither raging egotists nor inadequate bedroom dwellers.

Maybe because men no longer have to hunt mammoths, they no longer need to have such high levels of testosterone? IDK. But I know plenty of happy men with successful, interesting wives. So maybe high levels of testosterone aren't needed for a man to be happy and fulfilled.

What you see as browbeaten, many men see as choice, balance and a sense of relief. Many men don't want to be unreconstructed cavemen types. It's those that do that struggle with the real world. But women and the majority of decent men don't want to have their lives built around some raging desperates.

muddlingthrou · 27/02/2023 08:23

GothicViolence · 27/02/2023 00:16

The incel movement is what happens when a generation of young men are told to act in a less masculine way, only to find out that society finds feminine men off-putting.

At they save time they find that their peers who didn’t let themselves be brow beaten into ignoring their programming do better in every metric.

This is incel rhetoric word for word. How sad you don't realise that.

SchoolTripDrama · 27/02/2023 08:24

@greenspaces4peace How fucking DARE you?! This is vile & utterly false. Reported

Shayisgreat · 27/02/2023 08:24

GothicViolence · 27/02/2023 00:54

The guys that work in “the city” making a shit tonne of money, apart from being good at maths what traits do they have?

I mean, I can tell you what traits my DH has but I'm not sure it's the answer you're looking for.
He's considerate, fairly serious, curious, pretty sexy, and generous with his time and love. He is all this and very good at maths, works in the city and makes a shit tonne of money.

He has colleagues with all sorts of personalities and traits. The ones he gets on with are very similar to him. None of them are perfect men, they're just doing their best.

Just because someone makes money doesn't mean they are arseholes.

Emotionalsupportviper · 27/02/2023 08:30

GothicViolence · 27/02/2023 00:33

It observations born out of experience. The men that are generally more successful in their lives are the ones that display what is often described as “toxic masculinity”, wimpy effeminate men get trod on. Incels, in my experience, realise that they are in the latter group

The men that are generally more successful in their lives are the ones that display what is often described as “toxic masculinity”, wimpy effeminate men get trod on

If by that you mean that men who are "more successful" are narcissistic bullies, and the kinder and more gentle men are pushed off the ladder while the narcs are on their way to "success", then it really depends how you define "success", doesn't it?

If success is browbeating your family and others so that you always get your own way, then you could well be right. If success is having a loving and happy family, you are way off the mark.

And don't confuse "wimpy, effeminate" men with "easily bullied" men.

a) Gentleness in a man is NOT "effeminacy"

b) "Effeminacy" doesn't mean "soft" . I've known many gay men - some effeminate, others not - and very few of them are "soft". They couldn't afford to be. The society they grew up in was a lot less accepting of homosexuality than ours is now.

c) Bullying men displaying "toxic masculinity" aren't "strong" men. They are men lacking emotional intelligence and maturity.

SerafinasGoose · 27/02/2023 08:30

Idkrealorfake · 27/02/2023 00:52

Wow we have a live one

Course we do. They've been swarming around this site like bees round honeypots for years. The concept of merely talking to, much less insulting, actual women must be too intoxicating to resist.

Bless.

FlatWhiteExtraHot · 27/02/2023 08:31

Let’s face it, no woman is ever going to want to be with a man who hits himself in the face with a fucking hammer because he thinks it will improve his chances of getting laid.

Emotionalsupportviper · 27/02/2023 08:31

dollypartin · 27/02/2023 00:36

@GothicViolence perpetuating these stereotypes is what causes more men to become uncles. I married my husband, a virgin and not toxic masculine asshole, at 28 exactly because he wasn't like that.

Also your username makes me think you are a loner incel dressed in black and angry. You should probably get some counseling.

You should probably get some counseling.

What? And have to leave his bedroom?

Emotionalsupportviper · 27/02/2023 08:33

ConfusedNT · 27/02/2023 00:38

No the incel movement is what happens when some men realise that now that women don't have to rely on men for social and financial reasons, men actually have to be decent men to attract women, and instead of being decent they decided to bitch about how women should still be relying on them instead

Meanwhile men who are decent men are still getting women and that really pisses them off. Because that means that womens emancipation hasn't stopped women getting together with men, it's just stopped them getting together with/staying with the bad ones. And that means they would have to do something about their behaviour and that's hard. So it's easier to bitch about women instead.

Excellent post.

Moopsi · 27/02/2023 08:33

JustAnotherManicNameChange · 27/02/2023 07:38

The incel movement is what happens when women and girls are allowed to say no.

My friend had an experience at uni with a guy who I always wonder how he turned out. She is a Christian who wanted to wait until she got married to have sex. She had a boyfriend for 2 years while we are at uni but then broke up. Soon after this we went to a party where one of the guys in our circle launched himself at her and kissed her and tried to grope her. He had always seemed perfectly nice and kind before, no red flags. She pushed him off and said she wasn't interested and he flew into a massive rage saying that she "thought she was better than him" as a Christian and that she was judging everyone else (referring to her belief in no sex before marriage). It was such a massive personality change as I would never have expected anything like that from him, but the rage and violence when she said no was scary. He seemed to have a massive issue with her belief in no sex before marriage even though she was in no way evangelical about it and was never ever judgmental about others. In fact she was the one everyone went to for relationship advice and was the life and soul of a party.

Being told no seemed to unleash something really scary in that man. I hope he grew up and changed his values.

Emotionalsupportviper · 27/02/2023 08:34

GothicViolence · 27/02/2023 00:49

All fair enough questions.

Millennials and Gen Z

Its been a political push from the elites to subdue the west, they did this by me forcing the politics of the HR department onto wider society.

It depends on the household but the indoctrination starts at home, absentee fathers are a huge problem, it takes men to raise men.

The introduction of seed oils and soy into the modern diet has also caused testosterone levels to plummet.

The programming that meant men in the Stone Age could hunt the mammoth.

Any metric you can think of; career, interpersonal relationships, health, wealth..

Oh - sorry!

I hadn't realised that you were a comedian.

Basecampzero · 27/02/2023 08:35

BellePeppa · 27/02/2023 08:11

If only it were true that men have to be decent to attract and keep women. If MN is anything to go by you can be the most abusive, toxic male and the woman still stays with them! It’s very disheartening. I don’t know much about incels (only recently heard about them re mass shootings) but I get the impression they join communities who encourage and feed on each other’s insecurities and resentments. A lot of them were, or are, perfectly capable of having relationships if only they extricated themselves from those very communities that validate their resentments.

Those men very rarely start off as toxic arseholes. They start out as lovely and supportive. Haven't you heard of lovebombing? They only become abusive and toxic once the woman is trapped with a part time low income job because of doing the bulk of the childcare. Also, society encourages women to take responsibility for the success or failure of relationships, which is also a factor of women staying in relationships to try and fix them. You only have to look at these threads to see the number of people falling over themselves to ask if the absusive arsehole might be depressed or have autism or be going through a tough time, that the poor victim of abuse has to help him through! It's no wonder women feel guilty about leaving.

The issue of incels is they don't just want relationships with women, they think they're entitled to have any woman who takes their fancy. They are angry that stunning women choose stunning men to go out with and not them. Most people don't swallow the idea that they are entitled to have anyone going out with them.