To think most people don’t have a ‘support network’?

[Moonicorn]

Just something I’ve noticed on here. There seems to be a belief that most women have a ‘support network’ of available family and friends ready to jump in if they ever need help, but this isn’t my experience?
Most of the women I know have some support, but more ‘somebody to phone for a moan now and then’ or ‘ask for a favour in an emergency’ rather than the ‘pop in and watch my kids/clean my house/be there for me 24/7’ type expected on here.

@Nuevabegin, no I didn't have parents close by to help. Mine dc are older now and Dh's mum passed, but she lived 2+ hours away anyway, both our mums do/did. I did have some partial back ups arranged though. And nowhere did I suggest a sibling aged 14. I meant more an older teen say 17+.

So what are you suggesting? Generally? When adults chose to have children, if you do both work full time, what IS your back up plan? What do you do when your dc are say ill. That's your choice isn't it? We all make choices. Mine are different to yours I'm sure. If the neighbour didn't work out, what have you done since to at least try and address this. Searched for anyone else? Or what will you do if your dc are ill in the future?

That question whilst addressed to you, is also generic, what will other posters do? Ideally parents need to at least think about it and consider what options are available to them.

The thing is, you also read on here about how vital it is to be 'independent'. To move out of the parental home and away to experience the world at the earliest opportunity. To prioritise your 'own little family' and if there no time to bother with other people, then, too bad for them. That if someone wants something from you that 'no is a complete sentence'. To keep extended family, especially the older generation at a distance because its 'your rules' and they're interfering and overstepping. That career development is more important than community, places matter more than people, and if you stay in your home town you've failed. All of these, while they have their place, and may work for some aspects of life, do inevitably lead to a society where people have little emotional or practical investment outside of their own front door.

A lot of people ( mainly on here) seem to very unforgiving and intolerant of others, which they can dress up as ‘ strong boundaries’ . I can see how that can leave some people with no support network!!
You get out what you put in in my opinion.

Agree with this.
I have a very small number of close friends who I could talk to about anything, but quite a reasonable range of people who I get on well with, mum friends, friends I've made when volunteering, and my neighbours.
Like you, I answer my door, talk to neighbours in the street, offer to help if I can, try to pass it on where I can, and also take parcels in for people. I've generally found when I've been stuck for a last minute fancy dress costume I can message and someone will be able to help. It's part of give and take.

I see the point that it may be to do with more families having both parents working full time now, while in days gone by this was less common. I am 39 now and when I was little my mum stayed at home and also had a lot of help from my maternal grandparents who were both retired by the time I was at nursery school.

But then, my dad had a really horrible and relentless work schedule and could get called into work in the middle of the night, on Christmas Day etc. I wouldn't like to be in that position where I really needed support from grandparents in place of my husband. My husband would not like that either, as he wants to see his kids as much as possible. My kids love their nanny and grandad but they're busy working still (in their late 60s) and they aren't a substitute for their parents which is as it should be (for us - obviously different families work differently).

I'm a sahm ATM and have been for years, but I've almost always had a job on the side for extra things like kids' activities which are so expensive now. Also, we see so much less of family than I did growing up (for a few reasons, including geography - I left home for a quote far away uni and never went back). But the upside to that is that I take my DCs to plenty of extra curricular activities, which I never did despite there being plenty of money for it, because we were just at school and then seeing family.

So I think it's different now, but not necessarily worse.

Which I never did as a child I mean.

And there are typos...

Also need more caffeine this morning 😄

"However, I would always answer my door at any time of day or night even if I wasn’t expecting anybody, I would go out of my way to help anybody with anything I could , I don’t go lc or nc at the drop of a hat, I don’t take offence easily , I wouldn’t start a thread complaining that I’d only been invited to an evening wedding reception or that my baby wasn’t invited, or that people didn’t talk to me much at the school gates, or someone glared at me , or a man beeped at me going round a roundabout and shook his fist or my kid didn’t get invited to a party I thought they should have been invited to, or a teacher did or possibly didn’t say something that may or may not have been a bit sarcastic or any of the other bollocks that so many people get het up about. A lot of people ( mainly on here) seem to very unforgiving and intolerant of others, which they can dress up as ‘ strong boundaries’ . I can see how that can leave some people with no support network!! You get out what you put in in my opinion."

This 100%. I am not a confident person at all but I am genuinely interested in other peoples lives and want to listen to find out how they handled tough situations. I don't get upset about how people talk to me because that's their problem not mine. I like having a laugh at work and helping other people out. It's taken me a long time to work out how to do this but going back to work after a long break in a GP surgery gave me a unique insight into the human condition. Loneliness is awful but most people want to help if you feel like this. Take it. Go the bereavement support group. Volunteer at the primary schools. Visit your elderly neighbours. Talk to the lady serving you coffee. These little connections make the big ones.

I agree with this too. All fine obviously if you’re very strong and can cope without any help. But you can’t sever all your links then complain nobody is there for you.

A little tip if you're finding it hard at work. I used to have a bag of Yorkshire mixture on my desk. Working in a GP surgery everyone could get stressed from time to time. I used to offer them round. Most people don't know what they are. So it's a conversation starter. And then you're the person with sweets. And you say to someone. "Do you want a sweet?" And they go. Ooh yes p,ease. It makes everyone happy 😃

@Oblomov23 I work part-time mainly due to not having family support and having no back-up with 3 dcs is difficult. Im in Ireland and school finishes earlier here than in lots of other countries and just to give you an idea ; secondary school students are off 3 months here in the summer !!! I am very lucky that my job is well paid and in the education sector so I can match my holidays with our dcs as otherwise it would be extremely difficult even with summer camps etc.
I’m happy to be part-time but it would be extremely difficult for us both to work f/t, we swap over loads my dh and I . We juggle everything alone. To answer your question we have been 100 percent proactive, we booked the dcs into after school , two weeks before September starts a short email to tell me that despite booking them in months previously , they had no places due to staff shortages, I check regularly and we are on a “waiting list “. My dh can wfh now which is a Godsend tbh and now are dcs are getting older . We have in the past gotten babysitters who are teenagers and the experience hasn’t been amazing and even at 17 hasn’t fill us with confidence tbh… and leaving small dcs you have to be sure. We found an older lady who seemed amazing, references etc but just didn’t show one day when I had to work and that was that . Our friends all have family support but might help in an emergency. We have helped out lots with childcare of siblings but now all their dcs are older and they don’t live close and there’s not much communication anymore, certainly never been reciprocated . We’ve helped with neighbours, bits and bobs here and there , we’ve paid a neighbour to look after our dcs but last several times I’ve asked for help (paid of course ) they’ve refused. I had dry socket and asked family for just a few hours of help so I didn’t have to bring dcs to dentist , they couldn’t.
We have absolutely tried and tbh we’ve sortof given up recently, it just seems we can’t access support. It’s definitely not for lack of trying or lack of putting in or lack of making friends or lack of offering help to others . In fact im reminded of a thread recently where a poster was complaining about their neighbours offering them help and them being expected to reciprocate, I get a very strong feeling that’s how y neighbours feel , they have family like all my friends , they don’t need help and don’t want to help us , fair enough . Also re my dcs being sick ? What we’ve done in the last 11 years , juggle it between my dh and I, what else can we do ? Hopefully we can both be in good health for years to come but we are well used to our situation now tbh.

The constant assertion that it somehow the parents fault , or they will definitely get out what they put in and that they aren’t trying hard enough is actually really crappy tbh . Sometimes people can try and try and it doesn’t happen for them , there’s loads of reasons for this , strange backgrounds/family dynamics, cultural differences (in Ireland it’s highly unusual not to have family support and this is even evidenced in a school here recently where they decided not to set up an afterschool as no demand , this is a big school…) and a host of other reasons that doesn’t mean they aren’t trying hard enough. In fact families of dcs with sn can find it particularly difficult and it isn’t anything they are doing wrong.

When my DC were at their (large) primary school I didn't know anyone with teenagers, all the other parents had primary age kids only. I would think it would be quite unusual to have a e.g. a 5yo in reception and a 17yo. None of our neighbours had teenagers either, oh, except the one who had a child of her own at that age so wasn't free to babysit my children, they either had young children like us or were retired and did babysitting for their own grandchildren.

Parenting is very different for those who have family close by who are willing to 'keep an eye on the kids' for all sorts of minor everyday things and those of us who don't have that. I remember my DM telling me about my cousin when her daughter broke her arm and had to take all of her children to the hospital and look after them for a whole 30 minutes until her Mum got there to take the non-poorly children back to her house. I was expected to feel so sorry for her when this terrible thing happened. Apparently the fact that I have a child with a chronic condition who has been in and out of hospital and DH and I have to take the other two in and out of hospital with us regularly because we have no family support completely slipped her mind.

I think this is very much a culture thing. It would be interesting to see how this question is answered by different nationalities and different countries. You get out, what you put in. Simple.

@Mamaneedsadrink that’s absolutely not the case , you don’t always get out what you put in.

I’m from Ireland , the culture here is very very much family and family help but not in ours 🤷🏻‍♀️ Such is life

I agree @Nuevabegin. It's a bit archaic to suggest it's all because parents bat away all offers of help.

That may be partially true, but there is simply no denying that families have changed a lot since I grew up (also in Ireland btw - I'm now in England). My English in-laws need to work still. They aren't around to help out day to day and, frankly, they wouldn't want to. if we're going to get into "all I read on Mumsnet is...", well how often do you see "nobody owes you childcare. Pay for it yourself. They've raised their kids and have earned their retirement". I don't have an issue with that at all, but I don't see how it's now all the younger generation's fault that they don't get as much help as previous generations at all.

My grandparents had a comfortable home, all paid off with quite a generous pension to retire on when they hit 60. My in-laws don't have that luxury despite working all their lives.

Also, people leave home more to see the world and study etc. So families are less likely to be in the same town. I left for uni at 19 and never went back to life in Ireland. Dh's family are all English and have remained in England, bar a few in Australia. But nobody is in the same county let alone the same town.

Then add to that that it's quite unusual for one parent to choose to, or be able to stop work entirely, so the groups of stay-at-home mums who all helped each other out day to day when I was little are all at work most days.

As I said in my previous post, I don't even think any of this is a negative. I don't think I'd swap my life for my mum's when we were growing up.

YANBU I'm a lone parent with no support network. I've no family.

Yep, it's quite upsetting when you get told it's your own fault you lack a support network.

I've given up a lot of time to support my family. They don't give a rats arse about me, I'm bloody staff to them. It's never good enough either.

I'm always the one to keep in contact with friends, just had enough now.

I'm nd & really need to firm up some boundaries, as I'm fed up of gaslighting arses.

"In fact families of dcs with sn can find it particularly difficult and it isn’t anything they are doing wrong."

We couldn't even pay for someone to look after ds. Social Cares back up plan for ds if there is ever a situation where it was needed is hoping the respite centre 90 mins away has room and that someone will come and get him.

I don't think it's as simple as 'you get out what you put in'.

In a traditional society there is a load of unpaid caring that is done by women who are denied the opportunities for education and career that exist here. I suppose the UK is in a transition stage where some of us have moved away from home and don't have mothers nearby to provide unpaid care but others do. And we see fictional tightly knit communities all the time so the expectation is we are suppose to have someone who can babysit at the drop of a hat.

My MIL kept telling us to set up a babysitting circle and she would tell us very jolly stories about complete strangers turning up to look after the DC so they could go out to a dinner party. I asked how she knew they were trustworthy and she said 'oh, they all worked at the university'. I think our awareness of child abuse makes us more wary these days as well, can't imagine being happy with a random bloke from DH's work turning up to look after our DC.

I also don't agree you get out what you put in. I had my nephew for my sister all the time. I had him whilst she worked, I picked him up from school, I took him on days out, I've had him whilst she went on holiday for a week!, whilst she studied, when she went on nights out. When I had my own children did she ever return the favour? Nope she's never had mine not once, she's a teacher now and told me she spends all week with kids so doesn't want to be around them outside of work?! so much for you get out what you put in.

I have a support network, but I'm loathe to use it.

I would never ask my friends for practical help (unless I was truly desperate) but they would give it if I asked. There are enough who Iive near enough and care enough about me to work out a rota if I had some kind of emergency situation.

I suppose the issue isn't so much about knowing enough people, it's about feeling like you can ask. Which I think probably comes down to how you value yourself, or don't.

I think a support network is more people who would help in a real emergency.

I definitely have one - both dm and dmil are within reach, and various friends with similar age dc.

I think it is a real disadvantage for families who don't have this and that it must make life much harder. Not having people to call on would definitely have effected my career.

I don't have as much support as I'd like. Its just me and DD. My parents will have DD if I pay them. We were technically homeless a few years back and I paid for emergency accommodation for weeks. I had to either use a laundrette or pay to use my mum's machine. I'd not have dreamed at asking any school mum friends for help as I'd have been hurt if they said no.

I do however do favours gladly such as giving random lifts, bars of choc if a friend is feeling down or childcare. These favours never translate into anything reciprocal. I'm just used to paying and being my own support network.

We don’t live near parents and so over time have found friends who are our network, but it has taken time and effort. But last week I was unwell and a couple of people offered to take my kids out to give me a break, and when I had to go into A&E we had people to call to look after the kids etc. but definitely not friends who come and clean my house lol, maybe water my plants when I’m away!

You do have to be willing to help others out too, I think. People don’t want to be taken advantage of and if you’re obviously there for childcare the friendships won’t feel genuine.

Also people saying they don’t want to ask for help - do! I never used to but actually struggling on isn’t helpful and you might find people are more than willing. Vulnerability is ok. The first time maybe just get them something or make sure you follow up with childcare as a thank you and it can grow into more!