To think good on her ?

[bluelollipop99]

I have a lovely friend who is 36 weeks pregnant, ( her first baby ) , and she mentioned she was having an ELCS.

I asked if the baby was breech, and she said "no medical reason, but I didn't want hours of absolute agony, being told too short staffed for an epidural, tearing , never being the same down there again , feeling tearing with a 25% risk of an EMCS anyway. The NHS will never tell you this , but the NICE guidelines say if you request an ELCS they have to give you one, even if the midwives fuss about it."

I had a great fear of giving birth, but went ahead with vaginal birth as there was the clear pressure at the hospital that having an ELCS for non medical reasons made you "less of a women."

But thinking about it , my cousin had an ELCS at the same time and her recovery was not significantly longer than mine; to make up for the agony I went through.

I also think it's a bit bad that you only get this of you are literate enough to check the NICE guidelines.

AIBU unreasonable to think ELCS is often the best option for some people, and good on her for not being shamed / guilted out of this ?

Also to add, I may be biased here, but part of me thinks I should have pushed for an ELCS.

I’m having one. Exact same reasons she gave. I want one, and they legally have to comply with that.

The idea that it’s not a ‘proper birth’ unless you’ve suffered to the maximum is so mad to me. No, thank you!

Had elcs two weeks ago after traumatic birth with DC1 three years ago that ended in EMCS.

Might have had DC2 sooner if first birth hadn't been so stressful. 100% right decision to have ELCS for second, would recommend to anyone. No guilt here!

I had one. They did offer due to large baby but they also offered induction.
I jumped at the chance of not having to push a baby out. Great for those who do but not for me thanks.
My ELCS was calm, straightforward and I honestly had no pain (just felt uncomfortable). Not saying it's what everyone should do but I HATE that people feel pressured in to a birth they don't want for fear of what society deems a 'natural' birth.
Seems back in the day, hospitals were rewarded for keeping csections down and the mentality seems to have stuck.

Yanbu. I had 2 vaginal births but if someone had said I had to have a c section I wouldn't be best pleased so it works both ways if that makes sense? I personally can't bear the thought of a section and totally and utterly understand why other people feel that way about giving birth vaginally! My second was breech and turned at the last minute but until then I was very much on the side of attempting a vaginal delivery because the c section idea scared me so much!

Exactly it should be women's choice, ( there was a story in the news a few weeks back where a judge ordered a 16 year old had to have a C-section, with force and restraints if necessary, as doctors felt it was the better option than vaginal birth and she wanted vaginal. Just as horrific if you ask me, women's choices should be respected , whether they opt for vaginal or ELCS.

yes, good for her.

After having one of each ( csection first, VBAC 2nd) if I went for a third I’d absolutely be opting for a csection. Recovery from vaginal birth took longer than csection

I'm having an ELCS in a few weeks for many of the same reasons as your friend. Although mine are probably more severe due to extreme phobia of vaginal birth. Because of this I had researched birth rights/choices to the nth degree for many years, so I knew my rights before I even got pregnant.

I knew all about the NICE guidelines and I imagine if you had a real phobia you would have googled about this and found out - its not a huge secret.

Family and friends seem to be rather inquisitive about why I'm having c section - they probably judge but I really don't give a fuck. I'm still going to love the baby the same, no matter how he's born, and I haven't spent my entire pregnancy in sheer terror.

Even before I got pregnant, I knew I wanted a c-section. I was terrified of the thought of giving birth vaginally.

In the end I had twins, both breach/transverse. My doctor explained I'd still need a c-section, even if I had wanted a vaginal birth. I think that was to reassure me that it was medical necessity, and not my taking "the easy way out". I really didn't care - even if I had had only one baby who was not breach, I still would have opted for a c-section.

The c-section was a lovely calm experience, with no pain and very minimal recovery time, so was the best option for me.

In the late 90's early 00's gynacologists were saying women should have CSections instead of natural births because there are less complications.

I wish Id had a c-section cos I had an assisted first time round, the doc butchered me. I lost loads of blood, was on drips for 24 hours and it took over 30mins to stich me up. When I had no 2 I tore so badly and again ridiculous length of time to be stiched up.

i had a prolapsed womb and suffer stress incontinence that pelvic floor exercises do nothing for.

I'm not saying having a c-section doesn't cause issues, but I think c-sections are def the way to go. I've told my DD that too.

I agree it’s a personal choice. I had DC1 natural but chaotic at the hospital which resulted in me having PND as soon as he was born. So with DC2 I requested a C Section. This was the right choice for me however my physical recovery was painful and harder. I am also sad about the big scar and overhang even though they did a very good job. So in my opinion a C Section is not an easy way to give birth - it’s just a different method.

No, there's so much more serious risk for you and the baby. Not to mention that its likely to make it much harder to breastfeed etc

It doesn't make it harder to breastfeed. It might delay your proper milk coming in by a day or so, but you still have colostrum. (I've had an EMCS and a VBAC and breastfed after both.)

You are incorrect. It’s right to ask and the hospital should offer you what you want but they don’t ‘legally have to comply’ NICE produce guidelines not legislation. No one is getting taken to court, being legally re reminded if they don’t ‘comply’ with your demands. It’s childbirth, not a hostage negotiation and the hospital may have difficulty offering an elscs to everyone who requests but the guideline is that

4 csections, 4 babies breasted to at least 6 months with no issues at all. 4 incredibly calm, beautiful births.

My friend insisted on two - there is a history in her family of urinary and gynaecological issues as the women age. Sure enough at 50 Poor friend is now suffering from chronic issue down there which is bad but would have been far worse if she had natural births so she was damn right.

It depends partly on how many children you're planning to have. The risks of a c section increase each time you have one, whereas vaginal births tend to get easier each time, so that's worth considering if you want a big family.

I had an ELCS for the same reasons and because the doctors and gynecologist friends I know advised and did the same. Gynecologists said she had seen far too many women damaged by labour. Doctor said in the short term ELCS is worse but there are more long term complications due to vaginal delivery. Midwives tried to make out I could not have an ELCS so I did quote the NICE guidelines. I am happy with my decision and had a lovely ELCS but can understand why it is not for everyone and think all women should give birth how they please.

I agree, they told me I might need an EMCS because DS just wouldn’t come out!! I froze in that moment and I was genuinely terrified and really didn’t want it ( DP hadn’t been allowed in yet due to covid times but was on his way). The thought of the surgery was the last thing I wanted but I would have done it for DS.

Thankfully DS got a shift on with a bit of help (aka torture) and came out naturally.

Having said that my pain, recovery and birth injury’s impacted my breast feeding journey because I couldn’t sit properly and was generally broken.

All in all I say women should get whatever intervention they feel comfortable with. The whole birthing process isn’t natural anymore anyway, I truly believe that animals can do it alone because they have no external factors and pressures form the outside world. Having said that though I wouldn’t fancy dying in a field with no medical help and DS might not have made it without the NHS.

I'm also some who'd have hated to have a C Section. They just weren't necessary for me.

That said, women must have choice when it comes to birth. However, they need to be able to make those decisions from a place of information and not fear.

Statistics are meaningless without context. Say, for example and to be clear I'm making these stats up, if 25% of women have an emergency section that sounds high. But if 90% of those women were either over 38 or over 30 BMI or both then that changes the meaning. If a woman is neither of those risk factors HER risk of an emergency c section is a lot lower.

The information women need to have has to not talk in general terms. It needs to be taken as a whole with their risk profile.

It's enshrined in Article 8 of the European Convention of Human Rights.. but as yet there has never been a case in law where a c section was refused and the NHS taken to court.

Nevertheless it's completely unacceptable that this is just 'guidelines' yet again another woman's issue left to individuals decisions.. an Obstetrician can still refuse to perform a C-Section if they feel it's unnecessary but 'should' refer to another surgeon..

Just wanted to post in defence of vaginal birth here. Not a boast but because there are so many horror stories and it can actually be a good experience. DS was born in easy and gentle birth at hospital, just me DH and the midwife. A couple of stitches afterwards that gave me no trouble. Very quick recovery and I was up and about within a few hours.

Aware this is just down to good luck and not a boast but I think vaginal birth gets a bad press sometimes and it can actually be a positive experience.

3 vaginal births for me ... and I say bloody good on her! my fanny has never been the same

Just my experience but had a caesarian with my first - not planned but not really an emergency - and vaginal with my second. Recovery from the first was awful and really affected my first three months with her. I was desperate not to have the same with the second and was stunned that once she had arrived I could just get up and have a shower. Now in my 50s and overweight, hate my scar and how it affects my body shape.

I had my second at home as after my first birth the idea of hospital terrified me.

It should definitely be choice, as long as that choice is safe.