To think schoolgirls wearing exposing skirts isn’t a feminism issue but a safeguarding one?!

[Moonicorn]

Following on from the thread about skirt length inspections, AIBU to think stopping underage girls from revealing their underwear and bum cheeks to male teachers (or any teachers) isn’t ‘internalised misogyny’ but basic safeguarding?

Or am I just ‘not enlightened enough’ to understand that underage girls can expose what they want to grown men as long as they’re ‘happy and comfortable’ with it?

Disclaimer: I believe adult women can wear whatever TF they want and are not responsible for men’s reactions to them, but this is about children which is a different ball game.

Interested to know your thoughts!

But how do you know he’s a predatory male? Wait until he had preyed on a young girl? Or just arrest every man?

If boys and male teachers become sexual predators, are you going to blame the girls for what they wore? No. None of this is the fault nor responsibility of girls. However, if you are concerned about safeguarding, then there are many ways to keep men and boys from harming girls and none of it should be on the girls to adjust their bodies, which only suggests they are somehow at fault. No. NO. NOOOOO. I am vehemently so appalled that anyone would think it's up to girls to hide their hair, their natural shape, or adjust their clothing because some men have criminal intent. Weed out the men, make them undergo strict safeguarding protocols/training.

It isn't really about the right to wear short skirts as such. It's about wanting schools to stop obsessing about what girls are wearing.

It's not 'obsessing'. I'm not even in favour of uniform. I don't give a monkey's about the right colour socks, hair colour, earrings etc either. But I really don't think it's obsessive or unreasonable to expect children of both sexes to come to school without their underwear being on show if they bend over (or sometimes even if they don't). I'm very equal-opportunities about this. As a teacher, neither my underwear nor the underwear of my male colleagues, should be on show either. Or the lunchtime supervisors. Or the lab techs. Etc.

The only reason it's girls who are in the spotlight about this is that it's only girls who do it. And anyone who thinks the reason is that it's the only skirt that fits their waist has clearly forgotten what it's like to be a teenage girl or never was one! It's not about 'not making boys/men feel uncomfortable'. It's about adults not facilitating or encouraging (some) teenage girls' desire (or feeling of pressure) to constantly focus their efforts and attention on looking sexy or fashionable in school. And yes I'm well aware there are also lots of girls who would rather wear joggers or trousers.

@Fairislefandango

So if the girls wore the sex skirts with shorts or tights that would be OK?

Fairislefandango
To be fair I remember a trend with some of the boys of trying to wear fashionable black jeans half way down their bums with their boxers hanging out the top.
The same attitude was taken by staff. Jeans aren't school trousers, the uniform states school trousers, and nobody wants to see your underwear so pull your trouser up.

It didn't last long as a fad.

It's not about teachers being attracted to pupils in short skirts tho is it? I know I can't stand walking behind young girls with there arse cheeks hanging out not because am attracted to them but because we'll I don't want to see it!!! Their is no place in school for underwear or bum cheeks to be on show its ridiculous.
Also its about teaching the children about uniforms being dressed smart and presentable you know ready for when they get a job.

They make women's trousers now. Though I also wear men's trousers and there is certainly no bulge in the fabric.

Once upon a time, when I was a 6th former, my head of 6th had to tell me to wear longer skirts. I was probably about 17.To be fair, you could often see the top of my tights and I know I used to dress in the shortest skirts possible. If she'd seen my going out clothes, she'd have fainted.

As a teacher, and mother of a girl with an inherited penchant for revealing clothes, I think there is a time and place. And it's not school. Especially when teachers often have to walk up stairs behind many students. If I close my eyes, I will fall down the stairs. If I look up, I may inadvertently catch an eyeful of m&s knickers.

If I turned up wearing a v short skirt, I'd be told it's inappropriate. Even with great legs. Why is it different for girls? Actually, isn't the question really: why do (some) teenage girls feel the need to wear such short skirts?

I think a dress code is something girls need to learn about. The things some women in their twenties thought were acceptable for the office that I have seen amazed me!

I would say if their knickers and bum cheeks can be seen that this does need to be addressed by school. It's probably better that a female pastoral staff mbwr do this than a male teacher. Although, I do agree that the male staff should be able to resist the students!

@Easternext

I answered the op which was about male teachers and safe guarding

And what if they don't get a job that needs a uniform or being presentable?

Even if they do it's hardly a difficult skill to learn is it

Actually, isn't the question really: why do (some) teenage girls feel the need to wear such short skirts?
That's a bigger question, and I agree, but probably something that will get more discussion on the feminist board than AIBU.

I was just looking at some of the teenage school girls at the bus stop in my area. I noticed them because their skirts were ridiculously short.

Some of the skirts were like belts. You could see half ass cheeks. If the girl moved forward at all, you could see knickers.

It was offensive to me. I dont want to see that when I go out . I could literally see ass and nearly vagina.

If a man went out wearing tiny shorts where you could see half of his ass cheeks and half of his penis hanging out, he would be stopped probably for public indecency.

Some of what these girls wear is shocking .

I shouldn't have to see young teenage girls walking in daylight showing their ass cheeks, what are some of them thinking.

It's offensive to me and it's also a terrible safety issue for them.

I have no idea where I am. It's Friday and it's half term.

I used to wear short skirts because I wanted men to look at me. That probably started when i was about 15 and started noticing the looks i got in the rearview mirrors.
I was not a feminist then and thought all feminists were just sad and jealous.
I also thought 26 year olds had no place in night clubs either. My caterpillar self was a twat. But in my defence, it was the 90s. If you weren't sexy, what was the point of you?

What I find really odd is that I live about 200 metres from a secondary school, so I see the kids walk by all the time. I can honestly, hand on heart say that I've never seen a girls arse cheeks.

I'm not saying it never happens, but the way schools and people go on you'd think it was every other girl coming in in her pants.

The other local secondary school that my son attends doesn't allow skirts and they are very laid back about trousers and there aren't too many issues.

.

I believe children of both sexes should dress smartly for school.
It wouldn't be appropriate to wear something with your knickers on show or nearly in most work settings.

It’s hardly a mystery why some girls roll up their skirts is it?

Women are subtly conditioned from an early age to put men/boys first, to accept that they are objects, under the male gaze. Just as some girls totally reject this, some embrace it fully.

In an ideal world boys and girls would all be taught about respecting each other, seeing each others as true equals, but this is far from an ideal world, and you can see from every day misogyny when girls start to develop how far we are. What was the average age when men start to ogle girls? It was 10 or 11 I think.

I don’t know what the answer is in schools, there’s a dress code, some children are wired up to rebel, others aren’t. I live in an area that is served by quite a few secondaries, I’ve yet to see a girl’s bum cheeks, short, yes, but not that short. I think some will always fight the system so will forever be watched for one misdemeanour or other, and no amount of rules, measuring and dress codes will solve that.

I think schools should just have a unisex uniform with different styles allowed, shorts or trousers, girls' or boys' fits. Even if you roll up the legs of shorts you still have an inch or two of fabric on the leg and you can't see anything inappropriate.

The local school, the girls have skirts so short they are not visible from the blazer and they actually look like they don't have one on. It's uncomfortable for myself as a female and I feel mortified for them tbh. The arses are basically falling out. One morning I also seen a young girl with leggings so thin I could see her thong. She was off to the same school. They all wear black trainers with them aswel. There seems to be no uniform standards at all.

My dds school is very strict on uniforms. Knee length pleated skirts or tailored trousers. They all look so much smarter.

I put a lad in my tutor group on report and his target was to have his trousers pulled up :D

There are a few different issues here and I think that people blue the lines.

First issue is appropriate dress code for school. Very short skirts aren't appropriate. Trousers could be a solution. Do schools go over the top? Some girls are taller, have longer legs, clothes will fit them differently.

As for short skirts distracting men or attracting predators. This in my opinion is a disgusting attitude and the problem lies solely with men.

Why do girls wear want to such short skirts? That's a much more complex issue much harder to unpick. Women are socialised to want to look attractive, much more than men. I do personally think that things are getting better in terms of what clothes and shoes are in fashion.

Isn’t it more why do girls feel they need to wear short skirts? We have a strict female Dep head at our school. Skirts have adjustable waists and are on the knee or below. Most girls adhere to the rule.

I have no idea where I am. It's Friday and it's half term.

I used to wear short skirts because I wanted men to look at me. That probably started when i was about 15 and started noticing the looks i got in the rearview mirrors.
I was not a feminist then and thought all feminists were just sad and jealous.
I also thought 26 year olds had no place in night clubs either. My caterpillar self was a twat. But in my defence, it was the 90s. If you weren't sexy, what was the point of you?
We have similar experiences, same with underwear out the top of trousers. We all know why we did it.

Women who talked about boring structural issues and socialisation were boring. It was an age of doing the same old shit but it was dressed up as empowerment. Foolishly I bought it hook, line and sinker.

Teens have always pushed against rules and expressed their emerging sexuality.
The difference now is that instead of adults being the adults, often it's the adults that are promoting it and eroding boundaries

@Mooshamoo your post is terrible and I've reported it.

Male teachers who act like creeps round girls should not be in schools.

Schools should be teaching the boys not to be creeps, rather than teaching girls they should cover up because creeps exist.

So it shouldn't be a safeguarding issue within the school.

And on the journey to and from, it's a matter for the pupils and their families

(If they don't want the uniform to be worm with very short skirts, because they hate how it looks, fine. But they should own that as a preference, not wrap it up as safeguarding)