To think schoolgirls wearing exposing skirts isn’t a feminism issue but a safeguarding one?!

[Moonicorn]

Following on from the thread about skirt length inspections, AIBU to think stopping underage girls from revealing their underwear and bum cheeks to male teachers (or any teachers) isn’t ‘internalised misogyny’ but basic safeguarding?

Or am I just ‘not enlightened enough’ to understand that underage girls can expose what they want to grown men as long as they’re ‘happy and comfortable’ with it?

Disclaimer: I believe adult women can wear whatever TF they want and are not responsible for men’s reactions to them, but this is about children which is a different ball game.

Interested to know your thoughts!

Lots of asking for it vibes on this thread

Eugh

This will never improve will it?
Girls are never asking for it.

It's also not wrong to also think that children showing underwear has no place in a school, or to question the adults who are advocating for it.

On a safeguarding level, I find it more concerning that across different areas adults are quite keen to push the "but it's empowering... Who are we to tell children to not express themselves in that way..." It's no coincidence that the way girls (me included as a teen) choose to express themselves with their uniform by rolling their skirts up short because we're told from a young age that's desirable. It overlaps with the male gaze and goes hand in hand with the male gaze school girl fantasy. It bothers me this is just another part of eroding boundaries between adults and children.

A local secondary banned girls from wearing skirts at all a few years ago, so all had to wear trousers.

They then started trying to regulate which trousers were worn because they were often tight on their bottoms (puberty anyone?).

If men/boys can’t control themselves around girls, maybe there needs to be some sort of intervention to fix that problem!

Yup, female teacher here

Regularly get bottoms of arse cheeks exposed in corridors.

Going up stairs is worse, clearly I don't look but anyone who did would get an eyeful.

It's bugger all to do with anything other than it's just not appropriate dress for the circumstances.

Totally agree that trousers, t shirt and jumper for all is far easier, more practical and cheaper. Uniforms are bonkers

Yes, daily. I have not observed that kind of styling at all.

I certainly have at my school. I genuinely overheard a y11 say to her classmate today 'Lucy I can legit see your knickers'! Loads of them have their skirts abit shorter than they're supposed to and get away with that. A minority wear them ridiculously short.

@Ponderingwindow

Me too.

I guess they need to justify the slut shaming some how

100% this.

I think male staff enforcing the rules is irrelevant. They'll have been instructed by SLT to check if uniforms are appropriate and that's all. You can tell by looking from a distance if a skirt is too short - it's not like they need to get up close and personal to make a judgement on it.

It's just an excuse for kids to kick off. In my day it was head shaving - one kid was told off for it, next day - mass protest. It's kids rebelling against authority.

I don't think measuring skirts is the answer. I think potentially a quiet word with the girls whose skirts are showing a bit too much and a phone call to parents for the same conversation is.

With a second member of staff present during both conversations and a voice recording to avoid any accusations.

Anybody here remember knicker shorts? It wasn't safeguarding then.

Lesbian women don't have a reputation for letching after teenage girls, do they?

I was relentlessly sexually harassed by from the age of about 12-21 and I can't say it was ever by a lesbian.

Christ, I went to high school in the 90s and my skirt was miniscule. Same as my peers. It was against the rules but never enforced.

It's not a new thing.

I work in a really good secondary school that has no uniform. It's incredibly rare to see a girl in a short skirt. They are seem to choose to wear jeans, joggers or shorts over tights or leggings. Maybe just leave the kids alone.

@LolaSmiles

Then enforce trousers

But, oh wait. Then the complaints of I can see her vpl or they are too tight on her bum will start.

Girls and women can never win and it sickens me that they are held accountable for men and boys being pricks

I don't think measuring skirts is the answer. I think potentially a quiet word with the girls whose skirts are showing a bit too much and a phone call to parents for the same conversation is.

Measuring is ridiculous, but having a quiet word achieves nothing. Nor does talking to the parents. The girls just roll their skirts up as soon as no parent or teacher is within view and keep them rolled up until the next teacher tells them off. Repeat ad infinitum. It's very tedious.

On the other thread the OP has explained that girls aren’t allowed to wear trousers.

its not about “pandering” to girls who refuse.

Also standard “knee length” grey shirts don’t come in different lengths, just waist sizes. That means knee length on one girl will mean a it above the knee on a girl with longer legs/taller.

The protests aren’t about wearing mini skirts or flashing their arse cheeks FFS.

If this was really about safeguarding, I don't think it would be approached in this way.

There is no need to "measure" girls' skirts. If girls are, as the OP so eloquently put it, "flashing their bum cheeks", then this will be abundantly clear without any need for an inspection. And if individual pupils are indecently exposing themselves at school, then I hope that this would be addressed with them appropriately on a 1:1 basis with due care and concern for their safety and wellbeing.

The vast majority of girls do not need this level of intervention. Inspecting and measuring every skirt is not about safety, it's about policing and controlling what girls wear.

Exactly.

Why won't these school just enforce a trousers only rule?

But yes, then the trousers are too tight. Never mind that women have different body shapes.

It's misogynistic and pathetic.

Christ, I went to high school in the 90s and my skirt was miniscule. Same as my peers. It was against the rules but never enforced. It's not a new thing.

Nobody's suggesting it's a new thing. What is new is parents demanding their daughters have a right to wear shorter skirts.

I work in a school. Some of the girls wear shorts so short I have, at times, thought they've not got one on at all as it's shorter than their blazer. Some have told me they can't pick up things they've dropped on the floor because their skirts are too short. Knee length is good to aim for!

What exactly is the reason for girls wanting their so short they hardly conceal the buttocks? I saw a bunch of schoolgirls walking through town and actually thought they had forgotten to put their skirts on!! They were literally the same length as their blazers.
I honestly felt embarrassed for them. It's not a good look at all

Yep. My dd would wear joggers every day if she could.

She is past uniform wearing age now, but when she did have to wear the branded school skirt, there was only one length available for her waist size, so that's what she wore. It wasn't horribly short by any means, but it also didn't meet with the official school guidelines. What was she supposed to do, that was the only option?!

Botw1

I've seen problems with trousers too. Some people really seem to struggle to follow a uniform however it's written. One school I worked at said "black straight leg trousers. Not jeans. Not leggings. Not jeggings. Not skinny fit." The number of girls who turned up in leggings was silly. It's part and parcel of society and the way some parents approach schools, and how girls are socialised.

Honestly I'd be happy to do away with uniform and have a simple dress code for all students that's nothing skin tight, don't show your underwear, keep your torsos covered.

Any adult who advocates for children dressing in a way that rests on a society full of sexist stereotypes and male gaze expectations of girls will be red flag for me. I don't believe it's empowering for adults to advocate for children to dress in a way that panders to creepy male fantasies.

Nobody's suggesting it's a new thing. What is new is parents demanding their daughters have a right to wear shorter skirts

No, what's new is schools demanding they don't. I don't know what thr push back would have been if my school had tried to enforce the rule as they never bothered. Why would they? It wasn't an issue.

I wear leggings to work. I'm in an office environment in a senior manager role.

What's the problem?

It isn't really about the right to wear short skirts as such. It's about wanting schools to stop obsessing about what girls are wearing. My dd would have gladly worn joggers if the school would have allowed it, and so would most of her friends!

What's wrong with leggings or skinny fit trousers?