To think schoolgirls wearing exposing skirts isn’t a feminism issue but a safeguarding one?!

[Moonicorn]

Following on from the thread about skirt length inspections, AIBU to think stopping underage girls from revealing their underwear and bum cheeks to male teachers (or any teachers) isn’t ‘internalised misogyny’ but basic safeguarding?

Or am I just ‘not enlightened enough’ to understand that underage girls can expose what they want to grown men as long as they’re ‘happy and comfortable’ with it?

Disclaimer: I believe adult women can wear whatever TF they want and are not responsible for men’s reactions to them, but this is about children which is a different ball game.

Interested to know your thoughts!

We are talking about school.

The most common clothing worn prior to rape is jeans and a T-shirt, short skirts do not make good men in to rapists.

Schools should take a hard line on boys behaviour.

A school I was teaching in put a girl in isolation for wearing socks that came over the knee.

The male teacher who had noticed this told a female teacher he couldn't talk to the student because her outfit was 'too sexual'.

She was wearing tights as well, it was cold and if a pair of socks makes a male embarrassed there is something wrong with that male or there is something wrong with the uniform.

All of the people saying, "make them wear trousers" girls' trousers are policed.

Girls are told their trousers are too tight.

If you look at a group of squaddies, wearing the uniform issued to them the females all have tighter trousers simply because of the female shape.

There is a Muslim school not too far from me, if a girl or a group of girls is walking down a corridor the boys have to turn to face the wall until they have passed.

It's an extreme stance but it stops boys giving girls scores as they pass by.

School should be about an education and about learning how to behave in an adult world, but we only teach girls that not the boys.

www.banburyguardian.co.uk/education/the-warriner-school-near-banbury-closes-amid-student-protests-over-uniform-row-4040151

A local coed school tried to change to the ‘unisex trousers for all’… students staged a mass protest and police advised school to close for the day on Friday 😨

Is there a class element to this and also maybe links to culture and educational.expectation?. In my experience going to a private selective school uniform policy was mostly but certainly not always adhered to but in some of the local comprehensives the uniform rules were pushed a bit more?

Are there boys and girls who base their esteem on their attractiveness (including clothing) as possibly academically they may not on course for brilliant grades? If academia isn't your thing then maybe you're going to play to your perceived strengths i.e. attractiveness.

Possibly a firm uniform stance may enhance the focus on the prime roles of schools i.e. education and prevent distraction.

Such mixed messages now. Students are told they have a voice, will be listened too, that their views matter, but actually, not on uniform apparently. We want them to freely express themselves but only up to a point. Adults aren't allowed to say how they feel .. if a man says he feels uncomfortable about addressing the uniform issue it is assumed he is thinking inn a sexual way when in fact the exact opposite is the case. He's bloody terrified of being accused of even a thought entering his head that a look is inappropriate. But we have to challenge them. It's unanswerable.

@BibbleandSqwauk

No, people are saying they see actual bare arses and labia. So clearly no tights

And you still haven't explained how a mid thigh skirt in tights will protect men from false accusations.

Im not advocating for any child to be allowed to show their bare arse or labia in school. But there is no denying that this thread is full of awful sexist and mysoginist attitudes towards girls. Wevd even had a poor girl who was raped and murdered victim blamed. The use of rabid feminists

So no I don't believe for a minute it's a out enforcing school uniform or poor teachers being uncomfortable

@Pillowwalk

Because we live in a sexist, sexualised society where females are expected to conform to ideals of appearance that centre around what males find attractive. Young girls aren't immune to that and standards of appearace are often more harshly enforced by other women

Id much rather girls didn't feel the need to conform to these standards but blaming and slut shaming them won't change it.

Do you wear make up?

Should we ban children in schools from wearing make up?

@Botw1 I have explained it, numerous times. I'm not doing it again. Please don't cite me in a post where you include accusations of victim blaming. I have never once done that. I feel like I'm am just repeating myself here as you seem utterly unable to comprehend that it can BOTH be true that some girls are victims and some males are also victims. I can and am concerned about both, but you seem not to be.

@BibbleandSqwauk

No, you haven't.

And, no. In a society where VAWG stands at the level it does I am absolutely not concerned about male teachers being 'victims'

Suggesting there should be an equal level of concern is victim blaming

Yes I have. Go back and read. No-where have I said anything about comparable rates of sexual assault vs false accusations, but it makes no difference. Neither are ok. And it is absolutely in no way victim blaming to be concerned about another group of people being put in a vulnerable position. Not sure how you make that leap really. In my 20+ years of teaching I have known dozens of absolutely decent professional men. You seem to be under the impression that no such thing exists and that even they do, they can be utterly disregarded. I don't agree. If your husband / son / brother was a teacher would you also not care about their safety at work?

@BibbleandSqwauk

No.

No more than I would be if they worked any where else and I certainly wouldn't worry about an almost non existent risk.

Clothing doesn't protect men from false accusations any more than it protects women from sexual assault.

A girl could falsely accuse a teacher while wearing trousers.

However that is not what we should be concerned about. It happens so infrequently where as girls are sexually assaulted (by their peers and adult males outside of school, not teachers) on a daily basis

Yes male teachers are absolutely decent professional men and as such they should be far more concerned with the actual VAWG than their own supposed comfort.

It's a strawman anyway given that no one has actually said girls should be allowed to have bare arses or labia.

No, but plenty seem to be saying that men who notice a v short skirt are sexual predators. And, just like me, male teachers can be concerned about BOTH VAWG and their own careers. Trousers or longer skirts do not protect against allegations but very short ones make them harder to defend against.

Joggers, t-shirts and sweatshirts would do it. Comfortable, practical and what a lot of kids already wear out of school. I hated uniform, so itchy and uncomfortable.

'very short ones make them harder to defend against'

Victim blaming nonsense

Ugh I hate this attitude of they should be able to wear what they want in the name of feminism. Young girls showing their arses to impress boys is not freedom. Funnily enough I got through my teens without needing to do that.

Something like this would be good:

https://m.shein.co.uk/Girls-Flap-Pocket-Drop-Shoulder-Elastic-Hem-Jumpsuit-p-3271474-cat-2005.html?skucode=I23txzsu49cj&urlfrom=ukadplask21071333705111007YYGPM&cid=18867950526&setid=&adid=&pf=GOOGLE&gbraid=0AAAAADm0yO7JV4qfBgvgqxrwojgSL892&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIsa3-uoizzQIVw-3tCh0sSQUEAQYAiABEgLf00DBwE&ref=www&rep=dir&ret=m

@QueefQueen80s

Did you wear make up?

"we even had a girl who was raped and murdered victim blamed."

Not true.
I was just thinking about Milly dowler as I read a book about her last week and I was upset about it.

In my post you are referring to. I said in that post "it was no way Millie dowler's fault what happened".

I said I was reading a book where levi bellfield said that her short school skirt attracted him.

He also said far, far worse than that about her school uniform in the book, which I don't want to repeat. He said alot about her school uniform in police interviews.

It made me feel terribly sad. It made me think about school uniforms in general. That they are badlt designed. And that girls should have the choice to wear trousers.
Yes he was just a disgusting creep .

Millie was very young. I think she was 13.

I think we as adults should have safeguarding responsibility over what young teenagers wear. And to help them to be safe. And to maybe be aware of the dangers out there.

But there is no way to say any of this without being told that I am victim blaming. So let's move on

@Mooshamoo

Exactly. Because you are.

Because you're ore concerned with what girls wear than the actions of predatory males

A 13 yo child is not responsible for their own abduction and murder and nothing she did or didn't do would have helped her to be safe

Concealer to cover my acne.

@QueefQueen80s

So you got through your teens without having to show your arse but not without having to cover your acne?

Yes.. where on earth are you going with this? How does a girl being self conscious of angry red spots equate to a girl needing to show her arse?

Whatever. I'm not getting into this again. For the last time I never said she was responsible. Who in their right mind would say that someone is responsible for their own murder. I didn't

Do you just like parroting the words "victim blaming". ?

My point is about keeping children safe. And as 13 ,14,15 year olds are not able to make the best decisions for themselves. Adults should help them to stay safe.

School uniforms (designed by adults for children) as they currently are, are not working. Teenage girls feel too much pressure to roll them up to be cool.

Trousers should be a choice for anyone.

@QueefQueen80s

Im pointing out the hypocrisy in judging girls for conforming while you did the same

How on earth is wearing make up the same as showing your arse?

You're being ridiculous

The vast majority of girls don't bare their arses though

If we are actually concerned with protecting children then we shouldn't be allowing them to wear make up either..

The sole purpose of make up is to make you look more attractive.

Why do children need to look attractive?

It's the same argument for short skirts.

If you actually care about not sexualidung children rather than just wanting to be judgy that is

Absolutely ridiculous 😂
If it was a strict rule then none of them would need to conform as they would all be doing the same thing. It's not feminism to show our arses off, only sleazy men benefit.
I actually think it's really creepy to passionately defend a teen girls right to nearly have her bits on display especially in a school setting.