To think schoolgirls wearing exposing skirts isn’t a feminism issue but a safeguarding one?!

[Moonicorn]

Following on from the thread about skirt length inspections, AIBU to think stopping underage girls from revealing their underwear and bum cheeks to male teachers (or any teachers) isn’t ‘internalised misogyny’ but basic safeguarding?

Or am I just ‘not enlightened enough’ to understand that underage girls can expose what they want to grown men as long as they’re ‘happy and comfortable’ with it?

Disclaimer: I believe adult women can wear whatever TF they want and are not responsible for men’s reactions to them, but this is about children which is a different ball game.

Interested to know your thoughts!

The only safeguarding risk is men leering over the thighs of children.

Some girls roll up their skirts, my sister was an expert, guess what you do if its short, use the little muscles in your head to look in a different direction. If a teacher is far too distracted by the length of a childs skirt they need sacking, they don’t need to be given a hi-viz jacket so they can leer over as many children as they wish.

I wear leggings to work. I'm in an office environment in a senior manager role.
What's the problem?
Nothing if it's fine in your office dress code. I have no issue with leggings.

If school has a uniform and it says 'no leggings' and a parent says 'oh great I'll go buy my child leggings instead of trousers and then I'll moan that the very clear expectations shouldn't apply to my child', then quite a lot.

If the uniform says students wear a white shirt and someone decides they want an orange shirt, they're being stupid. There's nothing wrong with orange shirts, but if it clearly says white and they choose to wear orange then they can't be surprised or throw a tantrum that they really really love orange.

chickenly, actually not as stupid as you think, my daughter has this at her school when she was younger and one of the teachers involved with the inspection, was arrested shortly afterwards for having sex with one of her friends.

@LolaSmiles

On the surface I'd agree with you

However I don't agree with women being told what they can and can't wear because of male sexual fantasy

I support and advocate for female choice.

I was a secondary school teacher for 25 years. They don’t buy skirts to fit their waist. They buy them from H and M or similar. Or buy jersey ones that they roll over.

The male teachers at my school refuse to comment on skirt length and regularly ask me to speak to girls in their tutor groups. We have had too many cases of teenage girls declaring that male teachers are pervs when they are just trying to walk up the stairs. I also do not want to see their kickers when they are sat down in my classroom. How would you feel if you went to the gp and she had her knickers on display or her shirt unbuttoned so you could see cleavage or your male gp was in tracksuit bottoms with his builders bum hanging out. Girls should feel free to wear short skirts and skimpy tops in the right setting. In the same way I wouldn't want a topless man doing my eye test.

What's wrong with leggings or skinny fit trousers?
Nothing.

But if a dress code says they're not in the dress code but Precious Parent and Prince/Princess Child decide that they're super special and it doesn't apply to them, then quite a lot.

See also "natural hair colours" and then someone's moaning in the local press that their 11 year olds turquoise hair was challenged. Personally I couldn't care less about hair colour, but if a dress code says one thing, don't do the opposite and then moan about it. The parents should know better.

Leggings are not outerwear. In my opinion they are not appropriate wear in an office/work environment. I don’t understand how people think it is ok to wear a garment that is little more than a pair of tights so that the rest of us have to see lardy arses , thong lines and the contours of genitals.

@WonderingWanda

School children are not in any way comparable to medical professionals

Luckily my workplace doesn't give a fuck what you think.

I work in an FE college where girls the same age as these girls do not need to wear any uniform at all. Most wear joggers/ jeans/ leggings. Quite a few wear practically see through leggings with red thongs underneath.

Funnily enough, male teachers are still able to teach and despite the abundance of young bodies, there are no accounts of men leaping over their desks to attack.

Most girls would be mortified to know you could see their bum cheeks

However I don't agree with women being told what they can and can't wear because of male sexual fantasy
I support and advocate for female choice.
I don't mind what women do.
I care about adults advocating that boundaries between adults and children are eroded.

I would question any adult who blame girls for distracting the boys. Like PP said, it has nasty asking for it vibes.
I also question adults who try to dress up girl socialisation in a very male gaze society as being super empowering for the girls. Why would adults want to encourage children to have their underwear on show?

Trousers would just be the best idea all round. Same uniform for boys and girls- shirt tie and trousers or polo and trousers. One school I visit is no skirt or shorts allowed, all the kids wear black trousers.

i was walking through my town the other day and a girl of about 13 came literally skipping past me and a group of 10-11 year old boys. Her skirt was so short it went up with every skip and we could see her entire arse as she was wearing a thong. I didn’t want to see her arse but there it was in front of me all of a sudden. The boys behind didn’t know where to look and actually changed direction because ‘that girls bum is out’

I wouldn’t want to see any kids arse, boy or girl. It’s inappropriate and not empowering to expose yourself. Not just because there are dodgy people out there but because ordinary people and other kids don’t want an eye full

It's a school uniform.

You don't see bum cheeks at my school because we have those kilt skirts which the girls won't be seen dead in so they all wear trousers.

Back when we had straight skirts, bum cheeks were much more of a problem.

Tracksuits would be an ideal school uniform. Encourages activity. Could have longer shorts or 3/4 length joggers in summer.

Most staff, including me, don't like the arse cheeks out. pants showing, halfway down thighs style so beloved of teenage boys, at work (a college). Also don't like barely there, knickers on display look that some girls have. College has a dress code, 'appropriate for setting.' which is useful

OP do you worry about boys wearing shorts for PE? Is that a safeguarding concern if they’re above the knee?

Your workplace is incapable of ‘giving a fuck’. I bet some of the people in it would prefer not to see your arse.

@LolaSmiles

I think the focus on underwear being on show is over egged

The problem is male attitudes to women and victim blaming

Not the girls and not the skirts

Well, the point of education, discipline and uniform in schools is to train students for their future careers. Many of them will need to follow a dress code or uniform without making such a fuss.

@WonderingWanda

Maybe, maybe not.

I don't think uniform does teach much

You're being rather outdated.

Leggings these days tend to be much thicker, not see through. Nobody wears things anymore either.

What is the obsession with women's arses?

My leggings are no different to any other garment. The new not difference is that my arse is bigger and rounder because I am not a man. It also means that mens style trousers don't fit me well because I have hips and a bum.

Perhaps all women and girls should just wear a niqab to avoid the male gaze.

I think the focus on underwear being on show is over egged

The problem is male attitudes to women and victim blaming

Not the girls and not the skirts

It's not over egged at all. It's not unreasonable for everyone (male staff, female staff, male students, female students) to follow their respective dress codes. Rolling skirts so short that underwear is on show is not ok.

There's two different issues:

1. Male violence, male perving - totally the responsibility of men, not girls, not skirts
2. School uniform - it's there, there are the expectations, it's really not difficult or unreasonable to expect boys and girls to follow the uniform.

The wider feminist discussion is why girls are socialised in this way, and why is it so convenient that they grow up to feel that this is a good thing to do. It's a societal issue and they're not growing up in a vacuum.

The wider educational discussion is why some adults are weirdly invested in their children's right to ignore any part of the uniform to the point that they're willing to push for girls being able to wear any length skirt. Some parents are apparently incapable of following a uniform policy, even ones that are quite clear.

If my workplace says no jeans, then it's no jeans. It doesn't matter what DH's work does, or if my friend wears jeans, my workplace says no jeans. It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with jeans, they're just not in the dress code for me. Wearing jeans and then moaning if my manager spoke to me would be silly.

Same for school uniform. I've only worked in one school that has a serious problem with skirts. The rest didn't the same thing as when I was a teen, the students pushed it a little, nothing stupid, staff reminded, everyone got on. The school with the biggest problem on uniform had countless other battles with parents thinking school rules were a pick n mix option

edit typo The rest did the same thing as when I was a teen, the students pushed it a little, nothing stupid, staff reminded, everyone got on.

Nobody wears thongs that was supposed to say.