Childfree people ranting about parents

[the7Vabo]

Came across a thread on another site full of people ranting about children entitled “parents not everything is about you.” I get it to a point, as a parent I think society has become somewhat a overly child-centred. I assume however that the odd stories you see about parents demanding people give up train seats for ten year olds are just that, the odd story of unreasonable behaviour that people in all groups can be guilty of.

The extent of the comments on that thread baffled me. Full of I’m so glad I don’t have children because X, Y. It’s one thing to want to be child free which to me is a perfectly valid life choice, but I’m baffled by the level of bitching about parents & children. If someone wants to be child free why can’t they simply be child free & accept that others didn’t make that choice instead of ranting about how parents are always on at them about how fulfilled they are while at the same time ranting about how terrible it would be to have kids.

Great, then the original complaint about the parent asking is a non event.a parents are entitled story with no basis

As a poster who has already said I was a child with invisible disabilities you would be wrong

I am explaining that consideration can go both ways

there was an assumption that a woman without children should always give up a seat to a child because they MIGHT have disabilities

Another poster said if would be nice if the consideration would go both ways and parents would consider that women without children might have disabilities and might need consideration

I gave an example of how, as a woman without children I had an obvious medical need and not one but two families ignored my need.

Now they might have had a good reason to do so I absolutely accept that, and I didn't behave in any way at the time as if they were in the wrong.

But if women without children are expected to always assume children have disabilities and parents with children are allowed to assume that their children's needs outweight even people with obvious needs can you really not see why we might get a bit fucked off?

Once again it is assumed that the children MIGHT have a disability and that it is my fault because I neither predicted my asthma attack or was able to speak when I was having it

It's also possible the teenage lad who have me his seat MIGHT have had invisible disabilities or his friends might have been distressed by the sudden change, should I also have considered that before I sat down.

I’ve never come across anyone saying that parents with children are allowed to assume that the child’s needs outweigh those with a disability. I think the parents on that train were assholes. I don’t think people are of the view that children needs outweigh the disabled, more than the able bodied should factor in children’s needs as well of those of the disabled & elderly.

You didn't question them not moving their child but you held judgement enough to refernece them on this thread so it's worth challenging that expectation in yourself.

Nor did the mum in the original story say anything, she didn't kick off or complain or harass or anything.

So how are any of these parents or children more in the wrong than the non parent adults in the story? Or more reason to assume they are entitled other than internal discrimination on your part?

He offered you a seat, so why should you have assumed anything other than he was happy to help?

The mum didn't but your assumption was she didn't have good reason.

Yep, also the disregard that children and parents can also come with hidden disabilities just like unaccompanied adults may.

It was more the fact that posters were being told that the child on the bus might have had adhd or autism and that by not moving they were responsible for 'allowing children with adhd and autism to slip down the cracks and not achieve' or something along those lines

Said to a poster who had already said they had adhd

The bus issue is essentially very similar to those who say that childless women should work half terms/summer/Christmas because it’s kind and considerate to their parent colleagues.

When asked for an example of when childless women receive any kindness and consideration in return, there’s radio silence.

Same with children playing up in restaurants etc. Asking if parents might show some consideration by not taking a toddler and a baby out to an adult-oriented place, you’re met with howls out outrage because kids need to learn/you’re so intolerant/you were a kid once blah blah blah.

See also: everyone being expected to tolerate terrible behaviour, not to admonish or even judge it. Because how parents raise their kids is king and nobody else’s business, even if the kids end up becoming violent thugs who cause social problems for the rest of us (see current thread on gangs).

There is a societal expectation that parents be given leeway and consideration in basically everything they do, but pretty much no expectation that they show any back. That’s what I mean personally when I say we live in a pronatalistic child-centred society. What parents say goes and everyone else just has to live with it.

Not judgement but describing a situation

Although this

You didn't question them not moving their child

I hope you are not saying that I didn't question them out loud in the middle of my asthma attack.....

But you know what I will go away and challenging my biases and see what I think

Perhaps at the same time you might like to apologise for your ableist comment where you blamed me for not speaking up when I couldn't breath?

Or is it just my biases that need examining?

Sorry, I mena you were right not to challenge them just as the parent was right not to challenge the woman who said no to giving up her seat.

I absolutely do not intend to minimise your asthma attack, it's as big an emergency and as debilitating as my son's seizures, I had an aunt who died of brittle asthma as a young adult, it was awful.

My points were more that your comments on the parents were based on nothing because you'd no idea fo their medical histories either. The fact you were standing ORIGINALLY, BEFORE YOUR ASTHMA ATTACK, despite another hidden disability is because you didn't ask THEN. Noone had any way if knowing you needed a seat until you had the attack and once you had the attack someone moved Yet you felt the most appropriate person to move was the small child with no knowledge of the child or parent

What I said was in response to that poster saying she had ADHD and it didn't stop her standing, I was pointing out we're kinder now, or we are supposed to be, as a society and have more understanding of a kids needs and my point was in response to saying she despairs of the future generation of employees, simply because the world is more accepting kids with disabilities need help. It wasn't about not moving it was the 'raisinh snowflakes' type comment. Fine, dont move, it doesn't mean a parent is wrong for asking, especially given the parent accepted the no without question. That was my entire point

Except people here criticised her for saying no because children should be blah blah blah.

Doesn't matter how kind anyone is.
ADHD doesn't make people incapable of standing. It was a bad example.

Can people stop bloody using us in everything to try to score points because going by mumsnet se should all be incapable of any kind if functioning fgs. It actually is becoming bit offensive on this site sometimes.

As for raising snowflakes... well, yeah.
But not because we are more aware of disabilities!

*Did they ignore it or were they busy watching small children? And genuinely didn't notice?

Also why didn't you ask someone to move? Why couldn't you say 'im sorry, I have a hidden disability, would you mind popping your child on your knee?'

Another poster is saying if the mum with the child needed the seat for a child with a hidden disability she should have said, even if it's uncomfortable to say. Why isn't that expectation there for you?*

You said this in response to my asthma attack, not my later mentioned disability

It was clear you said it in response to my asthma attack as several posters pointed out I was incapable of talking

I give up with this thread honestly

I can nearly die and parents are still saints (although the OP has seen it for what it is so I acknowledge its not all parents)

But a poster doesn't move for a child who know ones knows the medical status of and she's clearly a bitch because he might have a problem

Its fucking relentless

I’m actually relieved that this thread is coming to an end. Every time I think we’re getting better as a society, MN is here to remind me that we’re really not.

What would an adult without child want in return for giving a child a seat on a bus?

Restaurants in depends what you mean. A pizza joint at lunchtime, I’d expect kids to be there. A nice restaurant at night I wouldn’t. In either case I’d expect children to be told to sit down and behave but there is a certain amount of noise that children make chattering etc.

I don’t disagree that we do live with a child centred society, and I think it’s gone too far in places. I understand why those without children might find it annoying and I’m sure if you are childless it must be very hard.

@the7Vabo

What would an adult without child want in return for giving a child a seat on a bus?

That’s too literal an interpretation. What I mean is that in some cases it is an adult that needs to take priority, but society doesn’t recognise this. As the last 4 pages of arguing have demonstrated.

A nice restaurant at night I wouldn’t.

Me neither, but plenty of parents do. Go on literally any thread about this and you’ll see scores of them saying that kids shouldn’t be limited to lunchtime or chain restaurants, in Europe kids are out until 11pm, are we saying that mums should never leave the house????, we should all be more tolerant, etc etc etc.

My point is that we are incessantly being told to be kind, considerate and tolerant of parents but many parents seem to be positively outraged at the suggestion that they be considerate of others. It’s all one way.

Oh, another example - childfree weddings. A great area where parents could show tolerance of those who want to choose what their - often very expensive - day looks like.

On MN, that’s outrageous. It’s discriminatory to mothers of children under one. It’s intolerant of parents of toddlers who never get to leave the house because babysitters are so expensive. It’s ridiculous that a person should be able to exclude MY CHILDREN from a wedding!

And half the time on such threads you get posters recommending guilt tripping the bride and groom or indeed just bringing the kids anyway as nobody can be barred from a church wedding.

Oh, and those wanting childfree weddings are joyless shallow harpies obsessed with instagram and selfies and they’ll probably get divorced within 5 years because they don’t understand that a proper wedding involves their kid knee sliding on the dance floor.

I’d go so far as to say that lot of parents are absolute narcissists.

There was a great one where a woman wanted to bring her baby and toddler on a hen weekend. She didn't think it was fair that she should miss out because she was the only one with children.

I love how you managed to sum my hugely long wordy posts down to the basic issue in like two lines

Are you also available for summarising presentations and emails 😂

If someone invites us to a choldfree wedding we go if we have childcare , we don't if we can't find childcare. As long as the bride and groom understand some people may genuinely not be able to attend then I don't see the problem? Neither do most parents I know. Or when mine are too young to leave (breastfed babies do have a period where if they bottle refuse you can't just leave them more than a couple of hours) maybe my husband would go and I wouldn't or if no childcare 1 of us go depending who is closest to the couple. Is any of that a problem?

Haha it still didn't help!

I’m struggling to accept that this is a genuine question. Yes, of course it’s reasonable. Well done you for not being one of the parents I was talking about in my post.

OMG this thread.

"Some parents do XYZ."
"Well, I don't do that. So what's your problem?"