Childfree people ranting about parents

[the7Vabo]

Came across a thread on another site full of people ranting about children entitled “parents not everything is about you.” I get it to a point, as a parent I think society has become somewhat a overly child-centred. I assume however that the odd stories you see about parents demanding people give up train seats for ten year olds are just that, the odd story of unreasonable behaviour that people in all groups can be guilty of.

The extent of the comments on that thread baffled me. Full of I’m so glad I don’t have children because X, Y. It’s one thing to want to be child free which to me is a perfectly valid life choice, but I’m baffled by the level of bitching about parents & children. If someone wants to be child free why can’t they simply be child free & accept that others didn’t make that choice instead of ranting about how parents are always on at them about how fulfilled they are while at the same time ranting about how terrible it would be to have kids.

Also in terms of it going both ways

Two months ago I was on a train. It was absolutely packed because the one before had cancelled.

I have disabilities which means not sitting down is agonising for me, but the people in the priority seats all looked in clear need of them and it was the kind of busy where you just get pushed down the carriage by the people behind you.

So I ended up standing up squashed between the people in front and behind me in line with the table seats either side

I ended up having an asthma attack, unrelated to the circumstances, I just have bad asthma and I was having a bad week with it. But it was bad, bad enough that I was trying to work out if I needed to call and ambulance to meet me at the next station bad.

The young woman behind me had to get my inhaler out of my bag because we were so tightly packed I couldn't take it off. Then bless her she started asking around in a loud voice if anyone could spare a seat for me

On both sides of the table seats were parents of fairly young children, probably 3 or 4 year olds on one side and maybe 6 year old on the other side. Neither offered to put their child onto their lap so that I could sit down, they both just totally ignored the situation. It was actually a lovely teenage lad travelling with his friends in the seat back from where I was standing who gave it up, after some complicated mananouvers to make enough room for him to stand up and me to get back past.

So no all of this 'people should have consideration for those with greater needs' doesn't always go both ways

Obviously many parents are lovely but let's not act like it's just women without children who are going round ignoring other people's needs

And yet in the context we were discussing this, it was a poster who seemed to think it was outrageous she should ever be asked to give up her seat and for a child , including because she had determined was more entitled to the seat than any small child, having paid a travel fare. There was no suggestion the mother got abusive. If mother was annoyed by that pps attitude, I don’t blame her in the slightest.

Sorry that happened, and I fully agree with you that some (many) parents seem to think the entire world revolves around them and their children. I know many personally 🤣😩. I definitely would never say that women without children are the people most likely to go around ignoring other peoples needs. Quite the opposite.

Well some bus companies have a rule that children who get free tickets can use a bus with an adult but only if the child doesn't take up a seat that an adult needs

So as per the rules this really can be a thing

And honestly if there was a need for the child to have a seat co ordination issues etc parent could just have said

as someone with invisible disabilities I don't like that I have to tell people I'm disabled if I need extra accomadation but I accept that I need to because I can't expect others to be mind readers

@Tandora

"my reasons for refusing were first, that I had paid to travel whereas children travel free, which I believe entitles me to a seat more than them"

"unmmm no , that is seriously out of order. Seats should be allocated in priority of who is more or less able to stand. Many elderly people don’t pay for buses etc as they have a bus pass. Would you refuse to give up your seat to an elderly person on the grounds that you paid for it so are more entitled to the seat? Disgraceful attitude."

Yes, I agree, seats should be allocated by who is more or less able to stand. I judged that a young, fit and seemingly healthy child was more able to stand than me so I kept my seat. But yes, I would give up my seat for an elderly person as I would be more able to stand than them.
It's not difficult to understand, you seem to be looking to twist the experience.

God that's awful, I came in late clearly, I always say when I worked full time I got a full night's sleep. I wasn't as sleep deprived as with non sleeping children but in some ways I was more tired, just now working an with kids I'm stretched at 4 days and I think until the baby sleeps through I may have to see if I can cut to 3 days. Someone working full time with kids who don't yet sleep through must be absolutely on their arse. But working full time or part time with kids are comparably tiring to me.

When my mum was dying, she spent 6 weeks in hospital a 6 hour journey from me and I owned my own business, ore kids, I'd leave work and drive all night, be home 3 days at my mum's, drive back overnight and straight to work. For 6 week I slept 3 nights a week and the worry was massive. There are things more tiring even than newborn recovery. The only comparable thing would have been my eldest being in NICU for a week.

My point is anyone can be exhausted at any point, also many people on paper look like their circumstances are non tiring but I worked 6 and 7 day weeks a lot pre kids and it could have been described as work in Ng full time but it was about 80 hours a week.

Anyway, life is tiring. I'm sorry someone said you couldn't be tired!

Did you know if the child had a hidden disability? Did you ask if there was a reason he needed a seat? Would you have at least asked if another adult asked for your seat or just assumed they were entitled? Or can only adults have hidden disabilities in your world?

As someone with invisible disabilities I expect to tell people I have a disability if I need a seat. I do not expect to be able to ask for the seat and assume they will ask if they need to know

And the parent made no effort to understand if the poster had disabilities either

Again why do the expectations of behaviour only go one way?

@Forgooodnesssakenow

"The second half of your 40s is hardly elderly, children need more rest and sleep than adults, even very old ones like yourself 😬 and the whole I paid for my seat he didn't is petulant and childish."
I didn't refer to myself as elderly. I mentioned my age as someone had asked the age of the child so I added my to reflect the difference of child/adult.

"In your previous comment you said the parent should give up the seat for their child but this parent didn't have a seat to give up."
That wasn't my comment, someone else.

"You didn't give up your seat, unless she was the abusive towards you she asked, you said no, what's the problem there?"
There was no problem. Parent asked, I said no, that was the end of it. I gave my original comment as an example - in response to the original post - of how society can sometimes be child-centred.

"We were all kids once, don't you remember being a child? Being annoyed at kids in this way makes me wonder if people genuinely don't remember being a tired kid standing on a bus after a long day and no control over your own day. Being annoyed at the parent fair enough but actually being annoyed at kids I find so strange."
I wasn't annoyed at the child, I was a little annoyed at the parent. I do remember being a child very clearly. For me, and others who have commented on this and similar threads, when I was a child growing up in the 1980s, children gave way to adults. Very small children would stay in a pushchair or sit on parents laps, older children would stand. We all managed it fine, children are completely able to stand on a train or bus. It's a fairly recent concept to suggest that a child should take a seat in place of an adult!

They don't, the mum says, would you mind if my child had your seat, the adult says, I'm sorry I have an illness or injury and require the seat, the mum says, ah I wouldn't have asked but he has brittle asthma and has been struggling today, no problem. There. Everyone can be nice but noone was, parent or non parent.

Why couldn't you say 'im sorry, I have a hidden disability, would you mind popping your child on your knee?'

She was a bit busy trying not to die from an asthma attack to get into a chat about hidden disabilities.

I was a child in the 80s with hypermobility and undiagnosed ADHD who stood for adults despite being in pain and falling of the bus jerked, many sprained ankles could have been avoided if people saw children as humans with diverse needs as yooite asking us to see adults.

I'm in my 40s, I have a slipped disc, I need a seat due to invisible disability, I'd give up my seat for someone needing it more adult or child. I'd discuss my reasoning if asked and unable to.

It's also no one else's business what disability someone has. It's not for you to decide if someone's reason for saying "no" to you is good enough. But if you want them to give up their seat to you, then you need to plead your case to them.

She wasn't having the asthma attacke when she got on the train, that came later.

Also why the animosity towards a parent with multiple children whose needs you know nothing about? Why not towards all the able bodied adults still sat in seats?

An earlier poster said the parent asking for a seat for her child should disclose if the child has hidden disabilities, why must a parent disclose for their child but an adult not disclose for themselves? She also never asked for a seat wth or without disclosing.

You are simultaneously making the point that the parent wanting their child to have a seat must disclose disabilities and plead their case but the adult wanting the seat of an already seated child shouldn't have to ask, disclose their disability, plead their case?

Because some people would rather struggle on than have to tell strangers their personal business and wait for their judgement.

I was having an asthma attack badly enough that I could barely talk

However if you read my post you will see that a young woman kindly and very loudly asked passengers around if they would give up their seat for me and the parents who were sat a few inches away from her looked straight ahead and ignored her

And given i am the poster on the thread saying the mum should have said if the child had an invisible disability as that's what i do for my invisible disability I'm not sure why you are throwing that accusation at me!!

But if you ever do get bad asthma, the kind of asthma attack where if you don't focus a of your energy on forcing your lungs to get air in and out whilst genuinely worrying that you might collapse and their is a very real risk of death, by all means tell me if you have the lung capacity to say im sorry, I have a hidden disability, would you mind popping your child on your knee?

Your expectations are unrealistic and ableist .

Because one person wants something from the other. You don't need to know their reason for having it. But if you want them to give it up it is on you to convince them why you deserve it.

I mean when you first got on the train, prior to the asthma attack.

I HAVE a hidden disability. It's no more ableist to expect you to ask for a seat than it is ableist to expect a parent of a child who lets say has autism and may have a meltdown from standing on the bus to disclose the child's autism also possibly causing a meltdown.

While you were having the asthma attack why the expectation that someone looking after several small children help manage the situation more readily than an unencumbered able bodied adult?

Because the parent of a small child could have lifted one of them onto their lap where as an adult would have to get up for me

And we were in a packed train, so tightly I couldn't lift my bag off my back and these were the nearest people to me which meant it took less effort and less inconvenience to those around if the closest person moved

As it was someone further back moved which meant that I whilst having an asthma attack had to squeeze past people to get to the seat

why on earth are you do determined to make this my fault?

If you're such an advocate for disclosing disability and knowing you have asthma and a hidden disability why didn't you disclose that time before your asthma attack?

There's a myriad of reasons not to as you found in that exact situation. You had an asthma attack, the mum in the original complaint had a journey that passed without incident, what if her child had had an asthma attack? Would you have said, well she should have asked before she was dealing with a child fighting to breath?

My son has seizures, in many situations he NEEDS a seat, to an outside observer he looks able bodied, in rude health infact, if he gets even a cold he can be

But if the person already in the seat takes precedence always why should they? Also you don't know that child's needs, the mum had several children, what if they have hidden disabilities where picking them up and crowding th would cause a meltdown or seizure would that help the situation?