Childfree people ranting about parents

[the7Vabo]

Came across a thread on another site full of people ranting about children entitled “parents not everything is about you.” I get it to a point, as a parent I think society has become somewhat a overly child-centred. I assume however that the odd stories you see about parents demanding people give up train seats for ten year olds are just that, the odd story of unreasonable behaviour that people in all groups can be guilty of.

The extent of the comments on that thread baffled me. Full of I’m so glad I don’t have children because X, Y. It’s one thing to want to be child free which to me is a perfectly valid life choice, but I’m baffled by the level of bitching about parents & children. If someone wants to be child free why can’t they simply be child free & accept that others didn’t make that choice instead of ranting about how parents are always on at them about how fulfilled they are while at the same time ranting about how terrible it would be to have kids.

What are you even on about? There’s tonnes of parent/Mum only spaces and that’s fine? Not all websites, spaces, threads need to accommodate everyone. That one thread on the whole of the site is for childfree people, I don’t see the issue. You’re proving them right in thinking parents are entitled tbh.

Maybe you are tired & hungry. Proving who right about what? Childfree people frequently chip in on various parenting threads which I’ve no issue with, but vice versa isn’t allowed, why not?!

So you refuse to respect spaces that are set up without you in mind, simply because you don't mind if people intrude on spaces for you that aren't meant to include them? Childfree people would really have no business contributing to e.g. threads about parenting, what would they have to add without experience of parenting? Equally, that group want one thread for other people who are childfree, that's it...there are plenty of spaces for parents, I do find this rather bizarre and indeed entitled.

Maybe try some protein…

Spoken like someone who has no sensible response to a reasonable point.

But am I THE hungriest? Was I hungrier before or after I had my baby? Have other people got medical conditions that mean they are hungrier than me? Sod them, medical conditions don't count! Etc, etc.

Spoken like someone who has no sensible response to a reasonable point.

But am I THE hungriest? Was I hungrier before or after I had my baby? Have other people got medical conditions that mean they are hungrier than me? Sod them, medical conditions don't count! Etc, etc.

I never said nor implied any of the points in your last paragraph.

As for entitled, you feel entitled to join a thread I started to lecture me on what conversations you think I have a right/am sufficiently qualified to join. If a group of people want to entitle a thread “Childfree: parents not everything is about you” & someone simply points out that they are actually talking about the minority of parents, yes I feel they are entitled to do so. The same as if another group entitled a thread: “Parents: people without kids live pointless lives.” There are other conversions such as discussions about infertility where no I don’t think it’s appropriate for people to jump in. But that’s not the same as a group of people who choose not to have children wanting to bitch unfettered about parents as if all parents are the same.

I say that as someone who has never nor would ever ask someone to give up a seat for my child, who doesn’t expect colleagues to pick up the slack for me & who expects my kids not to infringe on others in public etc. etc. It wouldn’t even have occurred to me that any parent would expect non parents not to take holidays during school holidays until this thread.

One thread excluding parents isn’t the same as Mumsnet, a massive forum with various topics mostly not about parenting, excluding childfree people. It’s one thread that’s a “safe space” to talk/rant about everything childfree - some of the comments may be harsh but it’s probably a retaliation or vent in response to years of nasty comments and judgement from parents. Someone’s opinions will always be offensive - I wouldn’t go on an incel forum and complain that they’re being offensive to women. I just wouldn’t read it as it doesn’t concern me.

Also, it’s Tattle - have you been on any of the influencer threads? The whole forum is bitchy and unfair on celebs in general, picking apart absolutely everything that they do. I don’t like those threads as it’s overly negative and nasty so I don’t go on them. I wouldn’t go on here being like “have you seen what they’re saying about Molly Mae/Louise Thompson/etc!”. You can’t control what people do so just don’t waste your time on it.

The tagline on Mumsnet is “‘making parents lives easier” so I don’t know why someone childfree would choose a site marketed at mums if they are looking for discussion forums. There is no shortage of options on the internet.

I think tattle is ridiculous but I also think it’s worthy of discussion given the level people seem prepared to take things to there.

It's a site where 'becoming a parent' is an entire section

Is it really that confusing how childless people who have tried to be parents ended up here

How quickly after my miscarriages was I supposed to deregister?

Was I allowed to reregister each time I got a positive pregnancy test - because the 'is this a postive' threads are always busy and no one is on there telling the first time pregnant women to get off mumsnet

How late a miscarriage do I have to have to be allowed on here. I mean if my miscarriage was late enough to trigger maternity leave is that allowed, what's the cut off date?

How does 'style and beauty' make parents lives easier? Am I not allowed to want to look stylish because I haven't earned that yet by managing to carry a live baby through to full term

How does radio or music addicts make parenting easier?

Am I not allowed to join in the feminist section because I am not a mother of a live baby, because that seems very unfeminist...

If the discussions were just about parenting and only about after a baby was born you might have a point

But I derived a great deal of support from the infertility board through my treatment and miscarriages luckily from posters who didn't give a shit about whether i was supposed to be here on not

It’s not really a parenting forum like Babycentre though is it - Mumsnet is one of the only women-led forums on the internet, and topics like AIBU are pretty interesting for everyone. The only comparable forum would be Reddit but it’s a bit woke/younger demographic so may not be for everyone.

Going by your argument, how did you even end up on that Childfree by Choice tattle thread, if everyone should stay out of spaces not specifically for them?

I really think the OP is talking about the childfree by choice contingent which is what this thread is about.

Your situation is obviously completely different from those on the aforementioned thread who hate parents and children and therefore it doesn’t make sense for them to be whinging about their thread being looked at when they’re also on Mums Net finding threads and articles that irritate them so they can report back on their own thread on tattle (yes this happens).

My point which you have missed is that I don’t know why a childfree person i.e. someone who doesn’t want children would go to a site called Mumsnet. I also made the point in response to someone saying why would anyone bother to look at a thread named “Childfree: not everything is about you.” It was a specific point about a specific thread about those who have chosen not to have children. I was simply saying equally why would a childfree person choose Mumsnet if the thinking is that those with children shouldn’t look at childfree threads,

The experience you have described doesn’t make you childfree. I have made it 100% clear in previous posts that I am not referring infertility issues, and I have also specifically said that I was never referring to threads about infertility.

I am sorry for what you have been through. This thread was never about excluding anyone who has experienced infertility from anything.

The thread has been talking about both childfree and childless people and quite frankly the 'why are people without children on mumsnet' do not ever make that distinction

The childfree people on tattle did not come to munsnet to whinge that their thread was being looked at

A parent on tattle came on mumsnet to whinge that childfree people had a thread, it's like basically the opposite of what you are describing

this thread is essentially made up of posts from parents going to tattle, finding posts that childfree people have written and then reporting back on them

It is possible to be both childless and childfree if you count childfree as people making the decision not to have children

Aside from hysterectomy and cancer treatment destroying eggs etc the reality is most infertile people at one point or another have had to actively chose not to have children

Whether that's because they choose not to have IVF, or the choose to stop IVF or they choose not to consider adoption etc at some point that's an active choice

I chose to not have children because IVF was only leading to miscarriages, but I still chose. I could have chosen to continue with IVF and I may have eventually succeeded but I made a choice not to have children

That's why some people who have gone through infertility choose to refer to themselves as both childfree and childless because we have actively chosen to remain childfree rather than continue to pursue options.

And actually I never go onto the parenting topic on MN, or if I do it's by accident because its on active and I haven't realised due to an ambiguous title. That as far as I am concerned is the only bit that I should probably avoid the 'being a parent' section

And you will probably find most if not all childless and childfree people avoid that section

So for me one thread for childfree people is the same as that topic, not the whole of mumsent unless you can explain how the rest of mumsnet pertains to parenting.

MN is a place where parents can go for help with things around being a parent. But it is also a place to go to get help about other issues that aren't about parenting. It's here to help parents, but that's not its only purpose.

I am making the distinction in the thread that I started. I can’t speak to what the rest of Mumsnet does. I am talking about those who choose from Day 1 not to have children. Not any other group.

Childfree people going on an entire forum with HUNDREDS of non-parenting topics is very different to parents going on one specific thread called “childfree by choice”.

Tattle is a forum whose entire USP is bitching/gossiping, it’s literally in the name “tattle”, you’ve purposely gone on a thread called “childfree” within that forum and are shocked people are bitching/moaning about parents? Quelle surprise.

Ah, after nearly 30 pages the true intention of the thread is revealed - it’s yet another “people without kids shouldn’t be on our precious mummy site” plea.

🙄

Ye didn't pick that up from the opening post?

I feel like this thread is:

On a non parenting forum child free people have one thread talking about how glad they are they don't have children because of X and Y and how irritating it is when parents tell them their lives are unfulfilled

On a parenting forum a thread is started about this asking If someone wants to be child free why can’t they simply be child free & accept that others didn’t make that choice instead of ranting about how parents are always on at them

To which childfree and childless people have explained all the comments parents have made to them that made them feel that way

At which point some (a few) parents started making or defending the comments that childfree and childless people find unnecessary, hurtful or invalidating thereby proving the need for the occasional parent free space

But when we complain about this we are told by multiple posters 'I don't understand why someone without children would be in mumsnet anyway'

To which, amongst all the replies as to why we are, people asked 'well in which case why are parents on a childfree thread'

And then we came free circle with 'well if you ask that them I am going to why are childfree people on mumsnet'

So heres the question, if you have gone on a non parenting forum and seen a thread about non parents and want to know why childfree people have said certain things, why come on a parenting forum to try to find the answers, if you don't think there should be childfree people on here?

Or is the problem you didn't want childfree people providing perfectly valid justifications?

I have sympathy for those who are children not by choice, I was that person until I was 34. It came with a lot of heartache.

Those who are children by choice? I envied them, I wanted to be happy with a career and holidays and my relationship and my dog and I WAS but I wanted children badly and it coloured everything.

Now I have children and I love them and being a parent. However parenting small children in a 2 person working household is a lot of juggling and trying to make things work and those pre school and early primary years I do think it's fair to expect a bit of leeway.

Same way that I think it's fair for those who are elderly or disabled or economically disadvantaged etc etc. I think everyone deserves some compassion and concessions for their circumstance.

Mother's and work, the stage where having small children impact your work life hugely is a few years, in the grand scheme of a 50 year career this is a blip. All this 'exoecting parental leave, why am I paying for your choices lalaalal' we pay for everyone's choices, society is made up of a lot of people in a lot of different life stages.

Best example I can give is during lockdown with my son at 2 yr old and working for the NHS while husband also a key worker but couldn't put my son in childcare due to his health condition was bloody hard. One fo the most exhausting things I've ever been through.

My single childless sister was stuck working in a new city, she kept her job, WFH and had lots of downtime. Did I envy her? No, she had isolation, lack of company, lack of meaningful in person support. She didn't have the loving cuddles I had with my 2 yr old, she didn't get to see her neices and nephews that she loves grow for almost a year. She also didn't have the working all night, parenting alone all day juggling act myself and my husband had. We both had a really horrendous time in lockdown for totally different reasons.

There's no reason not to have compassion for others whose lives and choices and life stages are different

Weirdly, no - I thought this was just a standard “childfree people are horrible” thread.

I do wonder why so many childless by choice people are on Mumsnet? Only because when having kids wasn't on my radar I'd neve have thought to give a shit about Mumsnet so I don't really get the draw? I'm quite new so it's not that i don't think you should be welcome here I just don't know what elads a child free by choice person to Mumsnet? I'm interested to know?

And out of interest why do you think women who don't have children shouldn't join mumsnet to participate in, for example, the feminism topic.

Do you really think feminists who are parents will help their cause if they deliberately exclude a subset of women

Is that really feminist to divide women into categories and decide who is worthy to be part of the conversation

Do you not worry about the hetronormativity of it all. I mean yes lesbians can access sperms donors and fertility treatment but not all will choose that route, and therefore they will make the choice not to have children. Is it feminist to exclude them