Childfree people ranting about parents

[the7Vabo]

Came across a thread on another site full of people ranting about children entitled “parents not everything is about you.” I get it to a point, as a parent I think society has become somewhat a overly child-centred. I assume however that the odd stories you see about parents demanding people give up train seats for ten year olds are just that, the odd story of unreasonable behaviour that people in all groups can be guilty of.

The extent of the comments on that thread baffled me. Full of I’m so glad I don’t have children because X, Y. It’s one thing to want to be child free which to me is a perfectly valid life choice, but I’m baffled by the level of bitching about parents & children. If someone wants to be child free why can’t they simply be child free & accept that others didn’t make that choice instead of ranting about how parents are always on at them about how fulfilled they are while at the same time ranting about how terrible it would be to have kids.

And yes, I did realise your post was (more than likely) tongue in cheek 😚

I agree with you. However ...... we do need a future generation. And it's a tough job raising the children of the future. So, I'll pick up the slack at the office, while my parent colleagues do their vital stuff 🤷

It's really interesting that there are two really diverse groups - childfree and childless

As a childless person I dont align with those who chose not to have children, I spent thousands of pounds trying to have children

Then childfree people I am assuming do not align with those who chose to spend thousands of pounds having children

We are literally at diametrically opposite ends of the wanting children spectrum and yet it's very rare there are childless people saying offensive or thoughtless things to childfree people or childfree to childless people

It's only a minority of parents who are absolutely insistent on 'educating' childfree and childless people on what they are missing and how wrong they are and then perhaps a slightly wider group of parents who parrot some of the common phrases on this thread without thinking about it but stop if people ask them to

It makes me wonder why, when parents and childless people actually have so much in common, that minority of parents won't hear what we are asking, when people whose decisions are so different to ours, childfree people, get it exactly

@ConfusedNT You are right that it’s rare for childfree and childless people to say thoughtless things to each other. I also think parents don’t realise that general comments about life without children such as life is empty/pointless without children are hurtful to childless people even if they weren’t aimed at them.

I think of myself as childfree not by choice if that makes any sense. I wanted children originally and went through fertility treatment to no avail. However DH and I have built a great childfree life that I don’t think I’d change even if I could.

Because children are mystical magical beings, which only people who have them can understand, obviously. It doesn't matter why you don't have children, just the fact you don't have them means you are lesser and can't ever be on the level of those who do have them. You are destined to stay immature and live a superficial life without ever knowing real love.

I don't agree however I do think that before dc I was never tired, never looked so rough and never felt so stressed out so there's some truth to that and I had a very stressful life before dc but honestly if you're stressed working before dc it can really only get worse after as there's simply additional tasks to get done on top of work. Unless you make changes and that's no doubt why so many women are in pt roles instead
I also never experienced the depth of love I have for my dc before I had dc. It's a different type of love and for me it is superior and wonderful but I don't go about saying it.

I also find that the U.K. is one of the most dc hating countries in Europe. So it depends on the culture of a place as well.

The UK doesn’t hate children, they are just often badly behaved here because the parenting standards are quite liberal and people get annoyed with that. Other countries you think tolerate children, is because they discipline them much more so there’s less public tantrums and noise. Where I’m from (E Europe), everyone likes children everywhere and they get taken to concerts, theatres and museums and sit quietly - because if they didn’t they would be smacked. Smacking is normal and totally accepted there!

And no, I don’t like listening to screaming and whining when I’m trying to have a relaxing coffee or trip to a museum, that doesn’t mean I hate kids at all.

The UK doesn’t hate children, they are just often badly behaved here because the parenting standards are quite liberal and people get annoyed with that.

I agree! I’ve spent a lot of time in France with families with young children. Parenting is completely different over there. The parent is always in charge, they don’t try to be their child’s ‘friend’ or counsellor. I never saw smacking, but they kept a calm environment and I think the kids responded to that - no bloody tablets or overuse of screens, the kids got used to ‘boring’ things like going with parents on errands since day 1, and lots of fresh air/sports and good food.

@Moonicorn totally agree. We were on a campsite last year and our pitch was near a little play area and there were various ages of children playing together and DH and I were like, are they broken or something? Why aren't the screaming noises coming out of them?

I live next door to a very loud woman and her very, very loud children. Absolutely nothing is done without screaming. I am permanently on edge and not able to enjoy my garden in the summer without headphones (doesn't stop them staring over my fence). But if I complained then I would be the bad guy, so I just live quite miserably.

(And I can't afford to move to a detached house in the back end of nowhere, as MN users would advise).

I have kids and I wouldn’t expect colleagues without kids to consistently pick up the slack for parents. I don’t think it’s fair. Yes it’s at times very difficult to work and try to manage sick kids etc. but that’s between the parent & the employer, expecting other colleagues to pick up the slack isn’t fair IMO.
Im happy to help anyone out for any genuine reasons - illness, dying parent etc. But even that has a limit, for example my boss is a long-term sick leave at the moment. No issue with her but it’s now obvious it’s a long term issue & my employer has done nothing about it, just expects others to step in, I’m not doing that for months on end & nor should you IMO.

I have same with my neighbour they are loud so no surprise their kids are too.
I also have to sit in my garden with headphones on and the music almost at max levels to drown them out.
It was so bad then when their ball came into the garden one day when I was in my garden, I just feigned ignorance as I had my headphones on and reading a book so just ignored them knocking on my door to ask for their ball back. They did get it back later in the evening when I was 'free' but hell no was I going to stop reading my book just for them.

Yep - I bought a house over a flat during covid because “it would be so nice to have a garden”. I never use it because whenever the weather is nice all I can hear is screaming. Literally, the only time I’ve used the garden in 1.5 years is when we had a BBQ and I had house music playing loudly 😂 May as well move back into a flat, the interwall insulation tends to be decent anyway!

@ConfusedNT That’s such an interesting point. I wonder if it’s the absence that bonds childless and childfree people in understanding. We both get that society is built around people with kids, and that those without them are still isolated in many ways.

I’m in an infertility group at work (I’m actually childless and childfree - it’s a long story). There are only two parents in there. One has suffered secondary infertility and they are really no different to the rest of us who are without any kids - they get us, we get them. The other is not infertile and is there ostensibly to understand us more because her daughter is suffering from infertility and hasn’t yet had success with IVF. That one is constantly talking over, recommending that we start outreach and warning young women that their fertility drops off in their 30s so they need to start having kids earlier, as she doesn’t want anyone to go through what her daughter has.

I have to keep gently suggesting that this isn’t what the group is for. It’s for women to meet to discuss something that’s unique to them, very painful, and which they feel can’t be heard otherwise.

She has complete tunnel vision and cannot hear or listen to anyone else’s experiences. I feel that a lot of parents are like that - whether it’s tiredness or unconditional love or them raising the next generation or needing to have all the holidays off or being a more altruistic person or needing to use disabled toilets and wheelchair spaces or needing flexibility at work……… their only concern is with their own circumstances. And when called on it, inevitably it’s “kindness goes a long way”/“please be empathetic” etc.

Who are these wierdows who not only judge but comment it's just odd.

Just read this thread and you see how many people look down on / hate childfree people.

@kc431 that's not actually true and a sweeping generalisation of U.K. dc. I spent a large part of the year in Spain. Those dc get away with blue murder everywhere they go and everyone smiles sweetly laughing BUT it is actually so nice.
Looking at your posts I'd say you don't like dc that much!

This is my experience too. Children are welcome, but they’re expected to behave a certain way and fit into society, rather than society fitting around them. If a child misbehaves in public it’s completely normal for strangers to tell them off. Also yes, smacking is an acceptable form of discipline.

I also think that what helps with tolerance is if a place has adult-only spaces. Not just nightclubs and 18 cert films, but social spaces where adults can go and have some time out in an adult setting. The UK doesn’t have that anymore, and so if people are really having a bad day and just want to be somewhere quiet and without kids shrieking and dominating the space, they can’t do that. That makes for grumpy and intolerant people

For some reason it’s seen as weird in the UK for adults to want their own spaces, but at the same time they’re constantly being told that they must be tolerant of young kids who are still learning to behave (sometimes if only in theory).

I agree. There’s a real gap in the market! That’s why I like festivals so much - no kids, no dogs, just music and friends 😎

Same experience here @kc431 .
We eat in restaurants from young age, so are my friends children, but if we played up, we would get taken out asap. My family member had wedding with bunch of kids attending. Totally no hassle and disruptions because the second they started up (which was just couple of times) you saw parents taking action.
You sit and shush if you are at adult function or space. You go totally wild in appropriate settings for it like playground or kids party.
And we get told of by random people on a street or in public transport too if we misbehave😂 Even as teenagers!

@kc431 My childfree friends LOVE festivals. It’s not my scene but I can see why - it sounds wonderful.

They don't smack children in Nordic countries and the Netherlands but they tend to be far better behaved than in the UK.

Part of it is likely the culture where kids can roam more freely than in the UK.

My favorite festival has both kids and dogs 🤣🤣 I'm clearly doing this wrong