Childfree people ranting about parents

[the7Vabo]

Came across a thread on another site full of people ranting about children entitled “parents not everything is about you.” I get it to a point, as a parent I think society has become somewhat a overly child-centred. I assume however that the odd stories you see about parents demanding people give up train seats for ten year olds are just that, the odd story of unreasonable behaviour that people in all groups can be guilty of.

The extent of the comments on that thread baffled me. Full of I’m so glad I don’t have children because X, Y. It’s one thing to want to be child free which to me is a perfectly valid life choice, but I’m baffled by the level of bitching about parents & children. If someone wants to be child free why can’t they simply be child free & accept that others didn’t make that choice instead of ranting about how parents are always on at them about how fulfilled they are while at the same time ranting about how terrible it would be to have kids.

People replying to this thread are proving exactly why some people think parents are awful and entitled.

TwinsAndTiramisu - if you're going round one upping people everytime they say anything to you at all, I'm surprised anyone ever wants to talk to you. Whether it's about being tired, or someone saying it's hot here and you saying 'oh well it's hotter in Dubai' - extremely weird and abnormal way to interact with other people, and certainly not 'small talk' as you put it. No wonder people think some parents are socially backwards.

All this odd talk of 'unconditional' love as well, there are PLENTY of people estranged from their families or whose parents have abused them in dreadful ways. If you haven't personally experienced unconditional love before you had your child then I feel sorry for you and the shallow relationships you've had until that point, but that's not a normal experience. Plenty of people feel unconditional love towards their own parents, siblings, partners, pets, etc. And saying 'it's not meant to be taken that way' - I mean yikes, if you don't know what the word 'unconditional' means then perhaps you ought not use it until you do. You can't criticise people for being annoyed at the correct and intended meaning of that word.

Also as a small note I'm not sure why you have unilaterally decided medical issues are off the table

this is a thread that has been discussing both childless and childfree people

Both PCOS and endometriosis cause insomnia.

Therefore unless you specifically know the person you are speaking to is not trying yet, or childfree we are literally talking about the possibility of you saying 'you don't know what tiredness is' to someone whose medical conditions cause both the lack of children and the lack of sleep

So not actually I don't think medical issues are off the table in this specific topic, I'd say they were highly pertinent

I mean I've literally just answered that.

No.

Because like a medical condition, or an exceptional circumstance, twins are not comparable to the 99% of people who might make that comment to me. So it's pointless for me to state it back.

You know I called full house earlier but I did forget to leave room for a late addition of childless/free people are so self absorbed

I do feel like incontinence pants tonight to be fair with the amount of shit I've been expected to absorb on this thread

Tbh people with kids do love to go on and on, so I can empathise with child free individuals

Just wanted to say that my childless/child free friends are the least selfish and most flexible. They always consider those with children who might need to sort childcare and plan ahead. In return, I try to do the same or be a good friend in other ways to make the friendship equal. I am extremely grateful for friends who don’t ditch me if there’s an emergency at home and I have to cancel last minute. Selfish isn’t a word I would use to describe those I know!

Parents don't tell you they are tired?

I don't see why stating your experience of tiredness to parents of singles is any different to stating your experience of tiredness to people with no children. You're going to be more tired than all of them right?

Plenty of people feel unconditional love towards their own parents, siblings, partners, pets, etc.

@TiredandHungry19 I’m going to be a complete pedant and disagree with you, because I don’t think that the love a person feels for their parents/siblings/partners/pets, etc. isn’t really unconditional. It’s at least partially based on how they behave towards you and in the case of a partner, attraction as well.

If your parent, sibling or partner is loving nasty towards you, it will affect the way you feel about them; if they’re nasty or abusive, it will equally affect the way you feel about them. Your love for them is at somewhat conditional, because it can be eroded and even turn to hate, sadly.

Sorry, I know I’m being pedantic. 😂

That might be your experience but it certainly isn't mine, so again, I would say sorry you haven't experienced it before kids. You not experiencing it doesn't mean it isn't possible for others.

I have children.

I do think you have to allow for the fact that that is an online space, a space to vent with like-minded or similarly positioned people. It's different than saying the same things and actually directing them at people with children. People without children do have to put up with a lot of shit.

It's an interesting thing. I think when you don't have children, you don't necessarily want that to define you or label you. Stereotypes of the childless must become extremely tiresome. We usually are or want to be defined by the things present in our life not the things absent in our life. I don't go around introducing myself talking about all of the interests and occupations I don't have(!)

But then sometimes I see those without children talk about how "obsessed" by their children parents are, or how they are defined by their children, talk about their children, how boring they are because they only want to talk about their children etc and to me that does communicate a lack of understanding about how profoundly becoming a parent changes your life and your perspective. Like, of course parenting actual human beings is sort of all consuming and becomes an important defining role in your life. It's to many/most parents the most important thing in their life. I think saying "you don't know what love is until you have a child" is obviously just obnoxious and doesn't help anybody but I do think it's true to say "you don't know what being a parent is if you aren't one". And I think sometimes that sentiment is unfairly taken to be patronising. I also as a parent find comments along the lines "my dog is just as important to me as your child is to you" to be a little, well I think they just "don't get it" but I don't necessarily find engaging with that is helpful to anyone, better to just let it lie and let other people's truth be their truth.

I do also disagree that we're a child friendly society. I think we're a really child unfriendly society. We actually need children, they are our society's future and it's really within our power to give them every opportunity and advantage to grow up to be happy, healthy adults and I think societally were failing a lot of children. Politically they have no representation. I do think that's everyone's responsibility and completely disagree with the attitude that because someone has chosen not to have their own children they bear zero responsibility toward children / the next generation (though I wouldn't claim this was a widespread view among those without children at all, it's just something I have come across from a minority).

The thing that gets me is that I love kids. I've volunteered with them, worked with them, look after my sisters and my neighbours frequently. I've chatted with all my teams children and other colleagues kids, I remember their birthdays and to ask how their nativities

And so many parents are lovely, thoughtful people who would never dream of saying half on what's been said on this thread. But the problem is there is a vocal minority of parents who are so convinced of their own superiority of being parents that they cannot help but say hurtful things and then try to convince us that we shouldn't be irritated by that

There's been a few good examples of that kind of parent on this thread. Who, not matter how many people parents and non parents tell them its insensitive or irrelevant etc will still say things over and over again because they just need everyone to agree with them that motherhood is the best, parenthood is the most fulfilling most important thing, we don't know love/tiredness/joy etc

I have a feeling though they are the parents that other parents dread. You know the 'is your son still not talking, my little jonny was speaking in full sentences 6 months ago' sort of parents. Or the ones who try to tell parents of kids with autism that they just aren't controlling them and bring them up properly etc

*IS really unconditional is what I meant to type!

Have you not seen the threads from mothers of teenagers, often boys, who turn abusive to their mothers and get violent with them

I'm in no way accusing those mothers of not still loving their children unconditionally but the reality is its more complex than that in some situations and even a mother's love can be eroded if pushed far enough

In fact I think the narrative that a mother's love for her child is completely unconditional is actually unhelpful in those situations as it makes women feel more guilty, and like they are doing it wrong or they should tolerate the abuse for longer

Because it's kind of putting forward a point that goes without saying, isn't really a point.

Like...

New mum: "I'm so sleep deprived with my newborn"

Mum of triplets: "I'm massively sleep deprived, I've got three newborns simultaneously"

Well, yeah of course. Triplets mum's circumstances are not the typically normal experience and people know this. It's comparing apples to pears.

”Gosh I’m so tired too, the baby won’t sleep at night” = small talk

“You don’t know what tired is, my baby won’t sleep at night” = not small talk, weird unhelpful competitive talk

Please give us some credit. We know when someone is trying to sympathise and when they’re trying to compete.

Because it's kind of putting forward a point that goes without saying, isn't really a point.

Again...how is that different to saying it to childless people? Do you actually think they don't know it's tiring having a child? Maybe you were that ignorant as a childless person, but 99% of the rest of the world knows it's more tiring having children. So you're making a point that doesn't need to be made.

Reading this thread as a childless person with a mum I don’t speak to because her version of unconditional special unique love involved abusing me is… just lovely. Really really lovely.

No, its the inability of some to comprehend the possibility that Person A is experiencing something as a parent, that is not comparable to any experience before they were a parent, and the instant defensive assumption that if Person A acknowledges this, it's because they are smug and competing and invalidating.

At least you still have a mum. My mum died 15 years ago. You don't know what it's like.

(Sarcasm btw)

Estimates are around 20% of children are abused. And that figure is likely to be lower than reality as so much abuse is hidden.

When people around Christmas post how Christmas is for children and parents should get priority over the time off I often think the best Christmas present for those 20% + children is a Christmas without their abusive parent around

I'm sorry you were abused, I was as well by my mother, who would still claim she loved me unconditionally so that makes all her behaviour okay

No childfree person hears “I thought I’d been tired before but now I realise I really haven’t” as smug, competing or invalidating.

Its “you don’t know what tired is” that’s smug, compèting and invalidating.

This really isn’t difficult. One is talking entirely about your own relative experiences and the other is comparing your own with someone else’s.

I haven't seen anyone understand why saying "you don't know what tiredness is" is a normal thing to say to childless people.

Literally though, every example of tiredness before motherhood has been in relation to a medical condition. (That I've seen so far)

I was really tired caring for my demented mother. She kept me up most of the night shouting in distress. Oh sorry, forgot that doesn’t count. Only baby related tiredness counts.

From what I read, the body changes the brain and different parts become more prominent to make mothers want to care for it. It's in animals too.
It's a chemical reaction preventing from eating their kids when stressed, like rabbits can do.

Evolution in species is amazing. Like chili peppers evolved colourful to attract birds to spread seeds. Birds don't feel the spice but it speeds up their digestive track so seeds go through faster and don't get digested.

Nature makes the most interesting stuff.

You can't say that, you will be told its a unique situation that therefore doesnt contribute to the conversation (because apparently there are rules now) or its related to a medical condition 🙄