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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Childfree people ranting about parents

1000 replies

the7Vabo · 22/02/2023 09:59

Came across a thread on another site full of people ranting about children entitled “parents not everything is about you.” I get it to a point, as a parent I think society has become somewhat a overly child-centred. I assume however that the odd stories you see about parents demanding people give up train seats for ten year olds are just that, the odd story of unreasonable behaviour that people in all groups can be guilty of.

The extent of the comments on that thread baffled me. Full of I’m so glad I don’t have children because X, Y. It’s one thing to want to be child free which to me is a perfectly valid life choice, but I’m baffled by the level of bitching about parents & children. If someone wants to be child free why can’t they simply be child free & accept that others didn’t make that choice instead of ranting about how parents are always on at them about how fulfilled they are while at the same time ranting about how terrible it would be to have kids.

OP posts:
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whumpthereitis · 22/02/2023 16:08

YoMommaHere · 22/02/2023 16:01

It is true and I absolutely hate to shoot you down and I’m not here to be part of a civil war, as I'm not interested. I don’t think you’re missing out because at the end of the day, you can’t miss something you’ve never experienced and you’ve made your choice and you’re at peace with it; and that’s ok!

I love my dog, I’ve been a huge dog lover for years along with being childfree, but as soon as my child was born (I thought it was a taboo), it’s just an overwhelming feeling and it really isn’t comparable. However, I do understand the love for pets, my dog is my first child in my eyes and he is a priority, but my child is the forefront of everything.

it is not a competition at all, I’m just telling you this as I was childfree for a long time where I thought I couldn’t love anything more than my dog (14 years and still going strong), but my child did change that and I really didn’t think it was possible either. Your feelings are still very valid.

You’re not shooting me down. This isn’t a question that has an objectively right answer, it’s entirely a matter of opinion 🤷🏻‍♀️

You are comparing yourself pre-child, with yourself now. Exactly. That’s my point. You can only do that with yourself, you have no idea what anyone else’s emotional experience is.

You have your belief and that’s fine. You don’t need me to agree with you, and more than I need you to agree with me. Just live and be happy, why the need to have your belief recognised as truth by anyone else? Someone disagreeing with your opinion doesn’t take anything away from you.

ConfusedNT · 22/02/2023 16:09

Butchyrestingface · 22/02/2023 16:04

I love my dog, I’ve been a huge dog lover for years along with being childfree, but as soon as my child was born (I thought it was a taboo), it’s just an overwhelming feeling and it really isn’t comparable. However, I do understand the love for pets, my dog is my first child in my eyes and he is a priority, but my child is the forefront of everything.

I think it was on MN that I read the post by someone who said it wasn't until she got married and had kids that she realised just how much she loved ... her dog. Grin

My sister admitted to me awhile after she had her first child that she loved her cat more

She's an amazing mother who loves her children and is awesome with her but just that one cat caught her heart in a way that others haven't

I think more people don't say it because they know they will be accused of being terrible parents

Boomboom22 · 22/02/2023 16:10

SashaPearce · 22/02/2023 16:02

I’m assuming you’re quite young? I think you’ll find as you get older that your parents may well be dependent on you

Haha thank you 😊 no my parents are at the early stage of decline. My kids are 4-11 and I've taught 14-19 and degree, plus ks3.

The fact remains even if your parents depend on you as a child carer the child still is dependent until 18

Maybebabyno2 · 22/02/2023 16:12

Boomboom22 · 22/02/2023 16:10

Haha thank you 😊 no my parents are at the early stage of decline. My kids are 4-11 and I've taught 14-19 and degree, plus ks3.

The fact remains even if your parents depend on you as a child carer the child still is dependent until 18

Some people's parents are dependent on them for longer than that. Lucky you rhat you haven't experienced that.

Dreamstate · 22/02/2023 16:13

Norriscolesbag · 22/02/2023 15:42

Childfree people don’t half seem obsessed with parents. Just crack on, no one is interested, all parents have been childfree at some point. The reality is parenting (especially small people and those with SEN) is far harder than being childfree. So kindness and understanding of that goes a long way.

You choose to have children and therefore by what your saying here you choose to make your life harder. You didn't have to.

whumpthereitis · 22/02/2023 16:14

Boomboom22 · 22/02/2023 15:58

Well quite, that's what I said. It is evidently true though just like you don't know what being a man feels like you don't know what being a parent feels like. And the pp doesn't love their parents like a child because their parents are not dependent on them.

However many parents are shit and don't understand children. As a teacher and Psychologist I agree. Many parents clearly don't feel that love or do but don't understand child development. But that doesn't mean those with those quals would be better parents, believe me it all goes out the window when it's your own child or children. As I'm sure medical Dr's still get worried about silly things etc.

No, I don’t know. I don’t know what it’s like to do a lot of things. I don’t need to.

I also don’t know that my experience of having children would be the same as your experience of having children, and nor do you. There is no universal experience, not even across parents. It isn’t something that can be measured objectively, so why the need to pretend it is? If you’re happy just be happy, why do you require other people to recognise your experience as ‘truth’?

Goldenbear · 22/02/2023 16:15

Reugny🙄no, goodness me, again, misinterpreting to suit your argument. I said, if someone in the workplace who doesn't need time off that particularly week in October for any reason other than to potter and that obviously doesn't mean if they have a health issue that needs addressing, including mental health, they then in their own thoughts might decide for themselves that they could actually forgo those dates as they can empathise with the situation the parent is in. 'No' third party involvement with this decision, so no line manager judging this or asking for personal information to decide how needy they are. I literally said, if they decide for themselves that as they are just pottering and could do it next week, they may decide that that is acceptable. Tolerance and consideration are necessary for a society to operate effectively.

Boomboom22 · 22/02/2023 16:17

Not an equal choice for society though is it? Yes they chose to make their life harder but society needs a replacement rate and labour of the future so it does make sense that rules and regulations at least allow parents to work etc or we'd have an even worse problem of aging population than we already do. Society benefits when educated capable women have children. We don't really want only less educated people to choose to have kids so it is in the interest of the state to favour parents. See china's 3 child policy for an example.

Applesandcarrots · 22/02/2023 16:18

JorisBonson · 22/02/2023 16:07

Amen!

I have to sadly say that so far it wasn't "society" but other women. Man keep quiet.
Hence my opinion on "sisterhood".

Applesandcarrots · 22/02/2023 16:21

Boomboom22 · 22/02/2023 16:17

Not an equal choice for society though is it? Yes they chose to make their life harder but society needs a replacement rate and labour of the future so it does make sense that rules and regulations at least allow parents to work etc or we'd have an even worse problem of aging population than we already do. Society benefits when educated capable women have children. We don't really want only less educated people to choose to have kids so it is in the interest of the state to favour parents. See china's 3 child policy for an example.

Robots and AI...

No one, I repeat NO ONE here goes into making children with "for the society!".
They used to for the motherland. Probably in some countries they still very much do, but not here. Let's not kid ourselves that it's some humanitarian act.

Tellmeimcrazy · 22/02/2023 16:29

YABU

ilovesooty · 22/02/2023 16:31

Prinnny · 22/02/2023 12:17

Yes it is petty. Why not have the week before or the week after if you have no plans? Be a decent human and consider other peoples needs. That’s what’s wrong with this world too many selfish fuckers.

Why people ask for annual leave on specific dates isn't anyone else's business. I hope as a manager you don't question your child free employees and ask them to consider the potential needs of parents.

LoveHearts69 · 22/02/2023 16:32

Some on here are saying that being childfree before having children doesn’t count until you’re 40+ as peoples attitudes towards you change which I completely get, but a lot of people on the mentioned forum seem to be a lot younger than this.

One of the nastier posters who has made horrible comments on mums bodies and breastfeeding has 1992 in her name which would only just make her 30
so if her childfree experience isn’t the same as other womens lives pre children then why so much hate?

JorisBonson · 22/02/2023 16:37

LoveHearts69 · 22/02/2023 16:32

Some on here are saying that being childfree before having children doesn’t count until you’re 40+ as peoples attitudes towards you change which I completely get, but a lot of people on the mentioned forum seem to be a lot younger than this.

One of the nastier posters who has made horrible comments on mums bodies and breastfeeding has 1992 in her name which would only just make her 30
so if her childfree experience isn’t the same as other womens lives pre children then why so much hate?

Childfree is the choice to never have children. Ever.

ilovesooty · 22/02/2023 16:38

Prinnny · 22/02/2023 13:03

As a manager though if two people want the same time off and aren’t willing to compromise and I have to make the decision I need to know why to make that decision. If you aren’t willing to share why, with myself or HR, then that is fine but it may not support your case.

Surely the request is granted to whoever asked first?

Christmas is obviously usually handled differently.

KimberleyClark · 22/02/2023 16:39

Some may not get the urge and so they won't want to. However biology would suggest that mammals will usually get this.

Mammals get the urge to mate. We don’t know if they have an urge to have offspring.

Most humans have a sex drive whether they want children or not.

ilovesooty · 22/02/2023 16:45

Prinnny · 22/02/2023 13:11

@backoftheplane we don’t do it that way, we have a ward meeting when we all sit and pick our weeks, so any crossovers can be discussed and compromises made. If it was a first come first served that would put colleagues on leave or different shifts at a disadvantage as they weren’t around to put their name down. It has worked well for decades, the team feel it is the fairest way.

It still doesn't give you the right to treat childfree employees less favourably or ask them why they want specific dates off.

BlueHeelers · 22/02/2023 16:50

It's pretty gross, but instructive. I feel really sorry for the OP of that thread.

And it's a reminder to me - if I needed one - to try to be polite, say thank you, and tip well in restaurants & cafés.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 22/02/2023 16:56

they then in their own thoughts might decide for themselves that they could actually forgo those dates as they can empathise with the situation the parent is in

When does this hypothetical parent get to empathise with the hypothetical child free colleague and think, you know what, X has had a really hard time at work lately, she deserves this time off and it won't kill us not to have this half term as holiday? or does it, as I asked before, only work one way?

OopsAnotherOne · 22/02/2023 17:05

I honestly think that no matter what women do there will always be someone with something to say about it:

Has no children - "you'll never know true love until you're a parent", "it's selfish to live for yourself", "who will care for you when you're old", "you'll have no family to visit".

Has children - "why are you complaining? You made this choice!", "You chose to get pregnant, you stand up on the bus like everyone else", "I don't care if your circumstances have changed, if you can't feed 'em don't breed 'em!"

Has 1 child - "They'll be lonely!" "You can't expect them to grow up with no siblings!" "What about when you die, who will they have?"

Has 6 children - "I don't mind as long as they're not using taxpayer money to feed them", "probably wanting more benefits", "insert misogynistic and grotesque comments about the woman's vagina after having multiple children"

A stay at home mum - "You should do all the housework/childcare/admin as your partner works", "lazy", "you should be lucky your husband pays for you to stay at home!"

Working mum - "your child needs you at home!", "why have a baby if you're going to get someone else to raise them?", "is a job more important than time with your child?"

The point I'm making is that in someone's mind, whatever you do will be wrong somehow. But these people are all strangers, and if they're people you know in real life who are saying these things, set them straight. DO WHAT YOU WANT! It's your life, you only have one, you have to make the decision you feel is best for you without pressure or coercion and anyone with the ignorance to be nasty to someone regarding their valid decision, just because it isn't what they chose for themselves, needs to simmer down and realise they're not as important as they think they are. We are all independent people with different lives and circumstances, children fit better into some lives than others and it's nothing but the individual's decision which is important when the question of having or not having children is concerned.

As a woman in my early 20s, I think I'd like children one day. Most of what's put me off parenting is what I've heard from other parents who talk about how tired they are, how exhausted they feel, the sleepless nights, the school runs, the hit to your career etc. I still want to be a parent but that's why I'm solidifying my foundations in life first before I decide if I do want to try and have a baby.

I don't want to TTC for a few more years yet as I want to qualify in my chosen career and buy a house first, but also I have a medical condition which means I may end up being unable to conceive and have therefore developed the attitude of "it'll be great if I do have kids, but it'll also be great if I don't have kids" and I genuinely believe that. Although, of course, as someone who would like a child one day I would feel sad if I did find I was infertile, it's not my "be all and end all" and I have two vague plans for my life, one for if I am able to have a baby and a plan for if I'm not. Both plans seem great to me, both have their pros and cons and I'll await to see which one will come into fruition when we cross that bridge.

I've already faced nasty comments from people (mainly my nan and her friends) who were shocked and genuinely disgusted when I said I wasn't sure if I would have children when I was older. I didn't want to disclose my personal medical details about the fact I may be infertile, nor should I have to, but I was met with lots of confusion about what I would do with my life, comments about how a career isn't worth a fraction of what a child is etc. Just general, disheartening comments phrased to make me feel bad about a decision I have no say in.

FlippyFloppyShoe · 22/02/2023 17:11

@MrsDanversGlidesAgain you know I will be working for 48 years, of those I did about 20 child free where I picked up holidays around parents without begrudging them as they got a fixed 6 weeks holiday a year and I could go anytime when there were no kids around and it was cheaper (Xmas and other religious holidays excepting). Then I have had a number of years so far and a few more to maybe 16 when my DC probably won't want to still spend holidays with their parent and then I have a further 12 years where I can pick up holidays at any point. I find the holiday argument really lame because I will have done the majority of my working life, in fact double that where I have needed to be there in the holidays for the DC, where I will be in the same boat as you.

Goldenbear · 22/02/2023 17:12

MrsDanversGlidesAgain again though misreading and misinterpreting as the conditions 'wouldn't be' the childfree person having a difficult time in any way. Empathy works across the board as does compassion for others. Maybe the colleague with children takes on extra work why the childfree colleague has a sabbatical or maybe they look after your work whilst you take two weeks away to visit and care for your widowed parent. That's the point with empathy, you demonstrate it when needed. It is not quid pro quo!

Ruralbeau · 22/02/2023 17:16

I find the 'what about when you're old?' question interesting. I think people in the UK are very very focused on the nuclear family. Growing up I had uncles and aunts and surrogate grandparents and I was there for them when they were old and was glad to help out they died. NONE of these people were related to me. One had lost an adult child and one had estranged sons. Life is a lot more nuanced.

Rebel2 · 22/02/2023 17:19

I always get "do you not want children?"

Well yes I would have done but I haven't met a man who I wanted to have them with, and I can't afford them so that's that!

LoveHearts69 · 22/02/2023 17:20

FlippyFloppyShoe · 22/02/2023 17:11

@MrsDanversGlidesAgain you know I will be working for 48 years, of those I did about 20 child free where I picked up holidays around parents without begrudging them as they got a fixed 6 weeks holiday a year and I could go anytime when there were no kids around and it was cheaper (Xmas and other religious holidays excepting). Then I have had a number of years so far and a few more to maybe 16 when my DC probably won't want to still spend holidays with their parent and then I have a further 12 years where I can pick up holidays at any point. I find the holiday argument really lame because I will have done the majority of my working life, in fact double that where I have needed to be there in the holidays for the DC, where I will be in the same boat as you.

Exactly this! I worked for a company for 10 years and was always happy to let the parents in our team take the school holidays - I love to travel and it was too expensive for me to go abroad at that time anyway! And much easier for me to book holiday or time off in the majority of the rest of the year rather than causing them stress and financial worry.

Occasionally there would be a need for it like an operation, wedding or funeral but because I was generally accommodating then they’d do the same for me. It’s just being considerate of each other!

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