Grandfather smacked DS bottom

[ranblungs]

DS can have meltdowns/big tantrums, usually when he's very tired. More so when he's at his grandparents' house (ex's parents). They have communicated to me that they found his behaviour very difficult at one point, but it seems to have resolved now.

ExDP did live with them but moved our two weeks ago.

DS (aged 4) told me yesterday evening that grandad had smacked his bottom because he was being naughty and that it "really hurt" he got upset as he was telling me and cried. I get the impression this wasn't necessarily recent.

DS also can play up at bed time when he is there and he told me that grandad pushes him back onto the bed for being naughty at bed time.

I'm not sure what to do next?

They are huge sources of childcare, ExDP is supposed to have him two nights per week but often works away so they will have him. They also help out during the week as/when needed.

The relationship between us was once very strained when DS was tiny.

I am furious that he has hit my child. Am I overreacting as it was just a smack on the bottom?

DS can be very challenging there.

This is the issue.

talk to the GPs about smacking but I do think you may need to liaise with your ex and both review your hours. Personally I think your child is out of his own house too much. He must be exhausted. Sorry I know it’s difficult - I’ve been there - but worked normal 9-5 jobs.

To the people that think this is fine, can I ask do you smack your children yourselves?

So you’d be ok with a grown man physically assaulting your child? Cool, cool.

It absolutely is abusing a child. Physical violence is abuse. Of course there are different levels and thresholds of abuse. Some children are just hurt and frightened. Others end up dead.

There is nothing hysterical about it. I would be protecting my child. I have zero tolerance toward child abuse. I do not care who the perpetrator is, you hurt my child, you are dead to me.

It is really disturbing how many people are happy to condone a man assaulting a child on more than one occasion. It is easy to see why children do slip through the net. A zero tolerance approach is the only way.

This.

Thank goodness some people with sense have come along.

OP - is there anyway of speaking to your employer about the seriousness of the situation?

I absolutely despair for the morons on this thread who genuinely cannot tell the difference between one smack on the bum from a loving parent or grandparent, and child abuse. It's minimising all the genuine and terrible cases of actual child abuse that are going on all the time. Shame on you all.

It is illegal, even in England, as this was not a parent. The ‘reasonable chastisement’ defence only applies to those with parental responsibility for the child.

In Wales and Scotland, smacking is illegal.

This is also something a school or nursery would need to pass on to children’s services.

I’m not sure you can control who cares for your child whilst in your ex partner’s charge. Unless you go down the road of social services im not sure what you can actually do.

In answer to this, no, I do not smack my children. I was smacked occasionally as a child, which absolutely did NOT constitute abuse. I now use and recommend other forms of discipline myself, so accept there are better ways, but you cannot possibly generalise that all smacking is abuse.

It is a crime. You are minimising violence against a child which is abhorrent in all its forms. Seeing violence as a sliding scale from ok to bad is not helpful, as it introduces the ideas of grey areas, or potentially tolerable violence. It is never ok. There is no grey. You do not ever hurt a child, hit a child, push a child, use any kind of violence against a child. You do not allow your child to be looked after by someone who assaults them. This is how we protect children.

@InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream I would have to disagree with you there.

When does it stop being 'just a smack' and start being abuse? When a child is devastated and doesn't want to go to their grandparents anymore? When they're still talking about it a good length of time afterwards?

A smack is assault. It's abuse.

This.

Honestly I’d start by talking to your ex in laws and see what they say. If your FiL has smacked him once in the past and has potentially already discussed with your ex and agreed not to do again then that’s a very different situation than if he thinks there is nothing wrong with smacking and intends to use it as a type of discipline.

I would look at any possible options to change working hours, entitlement to any benefits to help with childcare (though appreciate that might help minimally if you have to do shifts) & see if there is any possibility to continue working while reducing/eliminating reliance on grandparents. I think some people are overreacting. While you absolutely should discuss that this isn’t acceptable with in-laws it’s surely not necessary to immediately give up your job mid cost of living crisis, which may have far more impact on your child’s well-being than this incident has.

I know it must be extremely difficult to juggle life as a single parent but you can't accept abuse of your son for the sake of childcare.

You absolutely need to tell your ex and, if you think he will downplay it, I'd report to the police too.

Smacking and pushing children is totally out of order. I have a 4 year old and I'd pains me to think someone would abuse him. All preschoolers and young children are tricky at times, the answer is never violence.

Are you saying it's ok to smack children? Is that ok just for family or any close friend? Is it ok for other children to smack them? Teachers?

Where are you drawing the line?

Smacking and violence is never right. And it is abusive.

If your husband smacked you because he disagreed with something you did, but he loves you, would that be ok? Or is it only ok when it's against a small child?

A babysitter or nanny is legally
allowed to smack a child (with permission from the parent) so I imagine a grandparent is too. I realise that the grandfather didn’t have permission, and won’t ever be granted permission, but I really don’t think this is something that would go any further.

If a child told me they had been smacked I would report it to the safeguarding lead so they could find out the facts, but that would more be to make sure that it was a ‘smack on the bottom’ rather than anything else. I don’t agree with smacking children, but we literally got reminded in our most recent safeguarding training that it’s not illegal in England.

If they look after him on the nights your ex is supposed to have him, then he should be paying, not you.

I would speak to the grandparents about using other methods that are more effective for getting your son to calm down. If you are struggling to get changes, I would consider mediation or getting the family court involved.

This is the most ridiculous comment.... really!?

I think it's also important to acknowledge that there is a situation either side of the point where the small child was hit by the 50 year old man, and when he was pushed.

Hitting a child doesn't happen in isolation, it's not a one second and done. What led up to it, what was said, how did the child feel, did he know he was about to be hit by this enormous adult? How about afterwards? What happened then?

It's not just a "smack on the bum" and anyone defending it, do you hit your own children? If not, why not?

It isn't done by an adult who is in control of themselves.

It points to a general situation, not just the moment when the child was hit.

Is your son starting school this year?
How do your in laws feel about providing care, do they actively want to, or do it to help you out?
What is your ex's attitude to what happened?

If he's starting school in september and they're happy providing care/it's out of your control if your ex uses them, I'd chat with them about what you do when DC plays up and tell them how the law has changed plus you're uncomfortable with them smacking.

I wouldn't be accusing them of abuse or refusing to let him go there.

If I could, I'd reduce the time the spends there but if you can't, school means a change is on the horizon.

Ah ok. So exactly how much violence towards a child is acceptable before to becomes a problem?

Would have been ok if this man had smacked his wife for talking back to him? It's just "ONE smack on the bum".

How do people who smack thier children not see that they are teaching a child that if someone does something you don't like or agree with that you should physically hurt them? To not choose to behave well because it is rewarding to do so but to behave well because you fear being hurt by the poeple you should trust most.

People who smack/hit children are despicable egoists who enjoy asserting their strength over those weaker.

god this thread is making me feel so OLD!! I wish people would understand there is SUCH a generation gap issue here ,when you have grown up with teachers hitting naughty students (and seeing it as a necessary form of punishment, particularly for boys) and parents smacking you it is REALLY difficult to conflate this with people saying it is child abuse, that they should be reported to SS and you should never leave your child alone with his grandparent again! Smacking is an outdated and ineffective form of punishment, we now know better, it shouldn't be used but please don't make the mistake of missing the chance to educate his grandparents about what your boundaries are and why things are different now.