To pull away from my close friendship because of her kids

[abouttimeforu]

My close friendship is with my sister. We are extremely close. My child can be very challenging , currently waiting on ASD assessment , attention seeking and has a hard time managing his anger although this has improved greatly .
My child struggles socially and doesn't have many friends.
He is also so kind and loving, very sensitive , thoughtful and funny He is 11.

My sister's two children are by and large, rude and moody. Their mother will often put this down to tiredness and hunger but reality is they are actually just rude and moody, mostly

They will engage with my child when there's no other option but if there are other kids around, they will practically ignore him.
So for example if we were grouping up for an activity, they will purposely say that they want to do x with 'Jen' and completely omit to mention my child's name or include him.
Despite him being the only one left out.
My sister does not intervene or correct them. I would be disgusted if my kids did this and very ashamed tbh.

Her attitude is that they don't have to socialise with people they don't want to socialise with .... until they have no one else and then ask to socialise with my
Child .He has been too available .. my fault.

To me he seems only good enough for them as a stand in but tbh I'm highly sensitive about this issue and biased.
I am very protective of himSo at times I am guilty of overthinking and over reacting when it comes to how I view his interactions with others , when In fact, he is absolutely fine with being on his own sometimes.

My child is always with me when we see my sister and her family. I generally make the effort more as her kids are younger and I have the time.

I think that for my sons self esteem and general happiness, I need to move away from the intensity of the contact , when with my child. He craves their attention and his self worth is so low that he will tolerate being second choice or not a choice at all, as the case may be.
This has only developed recently and I'm
Disgusted if I'm honest but then again , I'm highly sensitive when it comes to him.

My sister has zero insight with her own kids and has never once stepped in and said to her children, for example, to include my child or insist that he be part of a specific group that they were creating. They feel
Very Comfortable leaving him out and she feels very comfortable enabling that .
So, can you advise me here. I really need objectivity thanks.

I will add again that I can be very defensive as he was always labelled the 'troublemaker' which he was mostly, but not always, and always the one that was blamed when there was trouble among them... again, it was mostly him but not always. He has that label now though sadly as it has stuck.
Thanks .

They're cousins. So wouldn't choose to be friends and are only mashed together due to you and their mum.

Of course the socialise when there's no other option! Even adults do this. Eg work events.

You don't paint a picture of a child easy to get on with and so at their age they are going to have criteria that means they filter out people they want to willingly be with.

You just need to find his people and accept that family events are for family but otherwise they aren't friends.

The reasons for a someone’s behavior don’t necessarily change the impact of the behavior on those around them. They may be able to understand why he acts as he does, but that doesn’t change the fact that they don’t enjoy his company.

I’m not of the view that you have go get on with family by virtue of sharing DNA. I’m related to some great people, and I’m also related to some arseholes. I don’t consider myself obliged to interact with the arseholes because they’re related to me. That’s never struck me as a healthy value to have.

She’s right that she can’t force them to be close to him or include him. It sounds like they do try when it’s just the three of them, but they’d rather be with their friends if they have the option to. That sounds pretty normal tbh. I’m sure most if not all of us have people we get along with superficially because we have to be around each other, but that doesn’t mean we choose to socialize with them outside of that.

It is not unreasonable that your sisters’ DC have friends they actively chose to spend time and that they prefer the company of these friends to that of their cousin. That’s because you have a different relationship with your friends - one you have actively chosen due to shared interests etc - than with someone you happen to be related to. It isn’t exclusionary behaviour to prefer to spend time with people you like.

you describe your son as challenging, controlling and angry. Maybe his cousins are scared of him?

Does your son have many friends? Maybe you could bring one along next time you meet up?

You sound like someone who reflects deeply and is aware of your own biases and flaws. For that reason, I'm quite sure your sister is in the wrong - as this is the most balanced AIBU I've read.

The relationship is clearly hurting you, even if it isn't your son - as quite rightly you'd expect a close sister to be caring for her nephew in a similar protective manner as you.

You can't force children to play together - your child will pick up on the half heart approach anyway. But it's reasonable to expect his Auntie to be sensitive to it, not wish him to be left out and to respond to you and him with kindness.

Step back from the relationship. Seek other friendships. You don't have to go NC or anything that drastic but you can be unavailable next time she wants to meet up and slowly distance yourself to where you are able to see her and feel positive.

Confused
I didn’t say it changed anyones experience,
nor did I say anything about children having to play with someone they don’t want to,
i was simply pointing out that PPs comments were related to childrens outlook

It sounds like the sister is caught between her sister and nephew, and her children. She’s also right in saying she can’t force them to want to be around him - she can’t. Some children can be talked/cajoled/threatened into it (not that they should be, and not necessarily without negative impact in the short, medium, or long term), but others that just won’t work on.

What is she supposed to do? She takes her sister’s pov and risks her children ending up miserable and/or damaging her relationship with them/making all the familial relationships worse, or she respects her children’s wishes and has to deal with the consequences of that. It’s not a great position to be in, but imo she’s doing the right thing in respecting her children.

Some things are not quite clear here - it seems OP and sister are good friends, and she spends a LOT of time around there.
she says she is available.
it is not clear if nephews are asking for cousin to come round because no one else is available,
it seems more like if they have friends round they don’t want to play with cousin. They might not want to see their cousin at all, not their choice to have him around again. They might resend to constantly having their space invaded, by someone they don’t particularly get on with, making them moody and grumpy.
i also don’t think they will like the Don more if he is less available- they will just happily go about their lives.
OP - please do what is best for your son, but stop blaming the cousins

It might be more effective if you explained how children can be shown to be inclusive of kids with aggressive and controlling behaviour without it making them more likely to accept aggressive and controlling behaviour in adulthood (or childhood).

Because for most parents you will seem to be saying they should do the opposite of what they’ve probably been doing to protect their kids - tell them not to tolerate it, to walk away and not engage with someone who does it.

Simply calling that concern offensive is likely to entrench the attitudes of parents who might otherwise be open to learning new ways of teaching their children. They are always going to be more concerned about their own children than they are about how offended you are.

Feel like you made something up in your head about what I wrote.....

@NumberTheory I am not saying that any child should be taught to accept that aggressive and controlling is fine and dandy. Parents need to supervise closely. There need to be open and honest conversations.

This poster you quoted wasn't saying that. A lot of posters aren't saying that. The overwhelming POV seems to be that 'well your kid isn't fun for my kids to be around and he's not even got a diagnosis anyway'.

Autistic children are much, much more likely to be victims of bullying than NT children. Excluding a child for being disabled is a form of bullying.

But at pre teen / teen level they can pi k and choose largely as they have their own minds and likes, dislikes etc.

Just because they're related doesn't mean they do get on.

And overall someone being bossy or aggressive is enough to turn them off wanting to socialise when they have options

Your dis is a thoughtless cow and is raising thoughtless dc..
Back away and take your precious dc with you.

I would be fuming at her attitude.

Excluding a child for being disabled is a form of bullying

If the cousins had excluded him on the basis he is autistic I would completely agree. But they aren’t- the OP said he has been aggressive and controlling in the past which explains why they may not prefer to spend time with him when their friends are around who presumably don’t exhibit those behaviours. Sounds like it’s the behaviours they find difficult to cope with, rather than the specific diagnosis he is yet to receive from a professional.

I think most posters are responding in light of the OP's posts which put this discussion firmly in the realm of the kids having experienced aggressive and controlling behaviors from her DS.

Agree and also their relationship with cousins and how most kids would chose to play with own friends than forced relationship with cousins!

She has also said that her son is blamed for incidents when he isn't even there @NumberTheory

@LolaMoon - that's her guess. And those are autistic behaviours. We are well aware that our children's behaviour means that other children don't like them but I appreciate you pointing it out to me

Honestly I completely feel for your child :( I had emotional problems too and ended up labelled. I went through emotional regulation too and my whole personality changed for the better. But unfortunately mud sticks, in time I proved myself with family. But with most people they don't care to forgive or accept change from a person if they don't feel any need/responsibility or drive to. The cousins are only 11-12 so they are not going to have the emotional maturity or desire to accept changes in a person.

I would get him to engage with new children for a fresh start. Spent some time apart for cousins and in time things will change as they all grow and mature. For me if I was constantly treated as if I was still the old me, in a teenage brain it would probably start sending me backwards... as I would see it as oh if that's what im worth, that's what they think of me... what's the point? :(

That’s not quite what she said, but yes, now there is animosity between them and none of them trust each other because there has been a history of aggression and controlling behaviour and that’s going to build a foundation for an adversarial relationship, not a good one. They try to take every opportunity to Other him because they don’t want to be with someone they don’t trust. I’m not suggesting it’s good behaviour, but it’s a normal way for a child to protect themself when they keep getting someone they can’t trust foisted on them.

You seem to be suggesting that simply because DS has now learnt to control his temper the cousins should have to pretend they didn’t have the experiences they did. That they should be able to wipe the slate clean just by being told to. That’s not realistic and it’s not something most parents would generally want their kids to grow up expecting to have to do on someone else’s say so.

In this particular scenario neither the cousins nor the DS have reason to trust the other at this point. They need a long break from each other so they can come back to it fresh.

The other thing people are saying is that generally, even without the history these kids have, without anyone being ND, taking a bunch of kids who don’t like each other on holiday together and expecting them to get on and make nice together is a recipe for disaster. None of them are going to enjoy that.

Thats not what I said at all and you know it. There is no point continuing this discussion if you refuse to look at ways this can be managed/resolved and choose to misinterpret everything anyone says as a personal insult towards your child.

Ultimately being cousins does not mean children have to be friends.
It's possible, and typical, in life for children to play with someone in one context but prefer to play with their friends if their friends are around. Adults do the same, they can be happy to chat to anyone at playgroup but one session where their friend is there they'll talk to their friend over an acquaintance.

By the OP's admission, their child has displayed a range of behaviours that are likely to leave other children lacking in trust, especially as there's not an established friendship.

Expecting children to wipe the slate clean and view a situation from an adult perspective is unreasonable and almost invalidates the experiences they've had.

Her sisters children might be a bit moody and her sister might be a bit more permissive in that area than some of us, but it doesn't mean a friendship should be forced on children.

The adults might be better socialising separately for a while.

My Dsis and I had to put up with a friend s child similar to your son for years. We dreaded the meet ups as we get hurt. Child was younger than us by a year. We sat quietly frightened whilst toys thrown at us. At age 11 or 12 i finally told our parents how frightened we were (my sister is younger than me as younger than the child). As a result our parents saw the friends without us and the other child. I only regret not being brave and mentioned it earlier to protect my younger sister. Give the cousin meet up a break and just meet up with your sister op

I think you should stop encouraging family meet ups if they are ruining yours and your sister’s relationship. For example, it sounds like the kids don’t get on anyway and that’s fine - sometimes kids don’t get on. So it’s not like you’re meeting up for their sake. And now you’re considering cutting your sister off because of this? Why not just you and your sister meet up together and without the kids? It would be healthier for your son too, being rejected by his cousins won’t be doing anything for his self esteem as you said. There’s no need to spoil your relationship with your sister over it. I know everyone wants family to get along and really pushes relationships with cousins for this reason, but in reality I know very few sets of cousins who are especially close after the very small child years! Being related by blood to someone doesn’t make you any more likely to get along with them!

Sorry but it sounds like your son is very rude and badly behaved, and I would not want my children playing with him either. In fact, I'd make sure my kids knew they didn't have to associate with him and it's ok to not play with them.

To be honest your idea of parenting seems strange to me. You want to force other kids to play with your badly behaved/parented child. Children should be able to play with whomever they want, and they should never, NEVER be forced to play with someone they don't want to. I raised my children with body autonomy and to know they don't have to play with or associate with anyone who made them uncomfortable, that their human rights and feelings were important. This, is the hallmark of any half-decent parent. And I certainly want my children associating with yours, sorry. Your son is the problem here not your sister's kids.

Thanks for all the replies.
I have read them all and have decided to enjoy my time with my sister on our own and not put my child or her children in this position anymore.
For those who thought I blamed my sis kids, I didn't but I disliked the way they picked him up and dropped him depending on who was in company at a given time. I call it using .I don't like or and the ways and means of excluding him were sly and shitty so that's not something I want any of us to be part of .
I understd of course too that trust has to be built but for now I will encourage other friendships with him.
Thanks.

@IAmWomanHearMeRoar1 Your aggression intolerance and ignorance surrounding children with additional needs is astounding but not uncommon, sadly.

However , I think it's very important that pps read your response to give everyone who has a genuine interest and love for children with difficulties, an idea of the ignorance and bigotry that they will undoubtedly face on a regular basis.

I am glad that despite all my faults, that I am not a nasty, intolerant and single minded parent.
I'm pretty sure children would pick up on that.