To pull away from my close friendship because of her kids

[abouttimeforu]

My close friendship is with my sister. We are extremely close. My child can be very challenging , currently waiting on ASD assessment , attention seeking and has a hard time managing his anger although this has improved greatly .
My child struggles socially and doesn't have many friends.
He is also so kind and loving, very sensitive , thoughtful and funny He is 11.

My sister's two children are by and large, rude and moody. Their mother will often put this down to tiredness and hunger but reality is they are actually just rude and moody, mostly

They will engage with my child when there's no other option but if there are other kids around, they will practically ignore him.
So for example if we were grouping up for an activity, they will purposely say that they want to do x with 'Jen' and completely omit to mention my child's name or include him.
Despite him being the only one left out.
My sister does not intervene or correct them. I would be disgusted if my kids did this and very ashamed tbh.

Her attitude is that they don't have to socialise with people they don't want to socialise with .... until they have no one else and then ask to socialise with my
Child .He has been too available .. my fault.

To me he seems only good enough for them as a stand in but tbh I'm highly sensitive about this issue and biased.
I am very protective of himSo at times I am guilty of overthinking and over reacting when it comes to how I view his interactions with others , when In fact, he is absolutely fine with being on his own sometimes.

My child is always with me when we see my sister and her family. I generally make the effort more as her kids are younger and I have the time.

I think that for my sons self esteem and general happiness, I need to move away from the intensity of the contact , when with my child. He craves their attention and his self worth is so low that he will tolerate being second choice or not a choice at all, as the case may be.
This has only developed recently and I'm
Disgusted if I'm honest but then again , I'm highly sensitive when it comes to him.

My sister has zero insight with her own kids and has never once stepped in and said to her children, for example, to include my child or insist that he be part of a specific group that they were creating. They feel
Very Comfortable leaving him out and she feels very comfortable enabling that .
So, can you advise me here. I really need objectivity thanks.

I will add again that I can be very defensive as he was always labelled the 'troublemaker' which he was mostly, but not always, and always the one that was blamed when there was trouble among them... again, it was mostly him but not always. He has that label now though sadly as it has stuck.
Thanks .

@WandaWonder

I'm utterly confused after reading your post but thanks for replying anyWay.

• spent time in their company ...

@Clymene
I think OP mentioned her son was being assessed for ASD so as yet not classed as having a disability.
reading the PPs they are looking at the situation from a child’s perspective and mentioning it as such in explaining reasons why the cousins do not want to play with Ds.

OP I suggest you talk to your sister, ask her if she’s talked to her children about your Ds behaviour and try to see if there’s a way forward possibly by just seeing them without others around.

@Everyonehasavoice that sounds like good advice also thanks.
My son has significant anxiety from
Early childhood.

It’s a difficult one because I suspect if your sister were on this thread she could explain exactly why she allows her children not to play with your DS, there is clearly some background to it and maybe her kids are rude and moody only when being asked to play with him. Talk to your sister.

At 11, the kids are probably at secondary or just about to. This really is the age, when friendships wane and new ones are made. Unfortunately your ds had past issues and your sister seems to be on the permissive side with her kids. It’s an extremely difficult situation and one, where there are no current solutions.

Once children reach secondary, some parents seem to think it’s the survival of the fittest in friendship terms and back off, giving zero guidance. Have you ever read lord of the flies? Better for your ds to not be involved in dynamics, where children aren’t being given boundaries.

I think it really is time to encourage him to forge friendships and interests outside of the family, or at the very least away from your sister’s kids. Children with ASD can tend to be more immature, I believe. Are there any slightly younger family members he gets on with or even older ones, willing to indulge him? Age doesn’t necessarily matter. My teen dd will adapt and happily spend an afternoon with a younger cousin or my late 20s niece.

If there aren’t really many options, it may be easier to attend these family gatherings with a friend in tow for your ds. Despite some of the negatives, it is likely your ds has had a lot of positive input just being in a family group dynamic so it’s really a case of finding ways to continue on the positives.

It’s a shame your sister doesn’t want to look for solutions but even if she did that now, there’d be little hope if her children are still the same at 13/14. Do remember though that it may be her kids have said a lot of stuff to her and the way she’s parenting them is in relation to your ds’s past behaviour. By keeping to her approach, she may be putting up a boundary to you and think this is the kindest way to deal with your ds and how her children feel.

Your own description of your child is very challenging, has anger issues, attention seeks and struggles socially. It seems quite unfair for you to criticise children for struggling to get along with him. There has to be some understanding on both sides

I'm sorry, but this really needs rewriting, it's very hard to understand what you are saying with all the typos. I think you are suggesting he was blamed for each fall-out, even when it wasn't his fault? You say you understand why the cousins are wary, yet then criticise them again as having disrespect for him; really that isn't understanding. They spend some time with him, which is great, you just need to find ways to keep those interactions positive while adding other social opportunities for him. Ask your SENDCO for advice.

By your own admission your son had anger issues, aggression, desire for social control and was mostly the troublemaker...AND you are very defensive of him (I think that probably reads that you don't want to make him accountable)... and you wonder why the cousins aren't choosing him as #1? Don't make him so available if that annoys you. Encourage him to have other peer groups, don't rely on the cousins (who you seem to not even like) and then blame them when you know that he is their last option.

From what you’ve said, yes, I think for his sake, you should pull him back from his cousins for now.

Obviously I can’t tell you why they engage with him when there’s no one else there, but my guess would be it’s the least worst option (for them). Even when they engage you say they will blame him for anything that goes wrong. So it’s not really as friends. They don’t trust him (he probably doesn’t, shouldn’t, trust them). They are just using him.

This doesn’t sound positive for any of them.

You say he has anxiety about going anywhere apart from school, so if this is one of the few times he has to do things with other kids that aren’t at school I would wonder - is it maybe reinforcing that anxiety?

My son wasn't assessed/diagnosed until he was 11. He was autistic before that though and had been receiving DLA since he was 8. My family were well aware he was likely autistic before he was diagnosed and made allowances/reasonable adjustments.

It also feels like the OP's son has been scapegoated from what she's said. It's not fair on him to continue to push it.

We had the opposite situation (though my kids aren't rude and unkind). Their older cousin has similar issues to your son, but my kids put up with a lot of poor and upsetting behaviour from him which wasn't checked by his parents.

As a result, they tend to disengage where possible as they don't want the hassle. They also have very little in common with their cousins so while they're polite, I'm not going to force them to include their cousins.

Can you explain why you posted that her kids are younger? It’s hard to advise if you aren’t giving us the real story. How old is your son, really? Is he 15 or older and they are younger?

I agree with all of this and had a similar experience as a child. Its not that I did not like him, or care about him but his behaviours were unpredictable and often made me feel uncomfortable. Thats because I was a child and didnt have the emotional maturity to deal with it and to be honest, it scared me a little. I am a very empathic person and ended up working in psychiatry so its not as if I was cold hearted and didnt like helping people but you have to remember that a child's perspective will all be about how they feel in the moment.

Is part of this the cousin dynamic? Cousins often enjoy each other’s company when it is just them on holiday or family gathering but when chosen friends are around it sometimes changes the dynamic.

I've been in many similar situations with my ASD child and backed away from many friends because of it. It's difficult because if they don't enjoy his company (mine is very focused on his interests and only wants to talk about those/do the same activities he would do if alone but with other people there... We have talked about ways to include other people but he can't seem to do it) then they shouldn't have to be around him. But at the same time it's hard to see our kids being excluded and lonely and only natural to wish other people could help us with it eg by encouraging their kids to spend time around ours. But I wouldn't want to be forced to be friends with someone so 🤷‍♀️. I find it quite hard to be friends with people with NT children of the same age to be honest as this problem always comes up.

Hi OP, that sounds really hard for you both.

One thing that stood out to me is that you put friendship in the title when you are actually talking about your sister and your sons cousins, which really surprised me. I wonder if you are confusing expectations of family with how you would expect friends to behave. With cousins, you don't choose them, and I would imagine most children put their friends above cousins. Cousins are for family get togethers, and if you happen to end up being friends outside if that then great, but I don't think there should be any pressure to be. It sounds like perfectly normal behaviour that sometimes a child plays with their cousin but if a friend who they have chosen to be their friend is there they'd probably rather play with them. My niece is the same age as my son and will probably go to the same secondary school as him. They get on well but I have no expectation they will be friends or that either will choose to spend time with the other over anyone else. However they will still be cousins who love each other as family. I think you need to separate family from friends in your head.

Maybe try to see them when it's only you two families, or even accept that as the kids are secondary age they will be going their own social life and it's perfectly normal not to see much of them, without that being a snub to you.

It must be very hard navigating relationships with ND, but as much as you expect them to see what you do, that your son is kind, funny etc despite previous angry or bossy behaviour, you also need to try and empathise with them back. They may not be diagnosed with ND, but they are still children who are developing and it's not surprising if they struggle to deal sensitively with how to balance expectations of spending time with family with wanting to choose their own friends.

The thing is you said your son was a trouble maker most of the time before and generally a PITA - the other kids are of an age where they will remember this and so this has informed their opinion of him. Just because you see the change in him if they only see him sporadically they will just assume he is like how he was before so you can't expect their opinion of him to change just over a few visits

Agree with PP that you should raise this. But I wouldn’t expect anything to change. Some parents are happy for their children to exclude others and be rude.

Am confused about your references to stepping back from a ‘friendship’ when she is your sister. It’s not clear what the geographical distance is between you but can you just see her without her children and step back from promoting a relationship between the boys for a while?

If your son doesn't want to socialise with them or feels unhappy when he does I wouldn't push it. I would either mostly see her on your own (apart from parties etc) or if that's not possible may stick to going theirs or them coming yours and make sure your child has something to do.

They haven't withdrawn through, have they? They're happy to engage with him when there is no other option. And as soon as there is another option, they drop him. Nice.

Sometimes I do wonder about people's reading comprehension abilities.

Op, I wouldn't bother for a long while.

It's up to parents to teach children to be polite, inclusive (not selectively) and to manage relationships. Not to think it's ok to opt out and treat people as optional. Especially if those people have come go visit them. Appalling manners.

Time to step away for a bit. Develop other relationships.

I noticed you said the cousins will hang out with your DS when there are no other kids around. So if your DS has genuinely changed & id not aggressive etc, then do more meet-ups of only you & sister & kids so the kids get a chance to see that your DS is OK. But if the cousins encounter bad behaviour from your DS at that kind of day then you cant force them to include DS in bigger groups.

Can I ask why you think they like to engage with him when there no other option in that case ?

Surely this is no mystery. The answer is right there - they engage with him when there is no other option.

That's human nature pretty much, isn't it? Aren't there people you wouldn't call friends or choose to hang out with but if you're stuck in a situation/social gathering and they're the only ones there to talk to you make the best of it? I don't believe you can't fathom that situation. Feels more like finding ways to blame the cousins for what you see as their part in this unfortunate dynamic. But it's not like they can choose to no go on holidays/social events with their cousin, so they're exercising what choice they have in the situation.

I'm sorry for your son's social issues but the cousins and your sister's stances are understandable and if it's upsetting you both then yes, I'd say better to go on separate holidays in future. Joint family holidays are challenging anyway. Family aren't the same as real friends, which has some pros but lots of cons, and they're the age when cousins stop automatically playing with each other anyway. But pull back for your son's sake, not to make some point about the cousins being bad or your sister being wrong. Sounds like your DS would be less stressed by choosing his own social situations. My DS, who is ASD, has friends at school and online, but never wants to socialise IRL by choice and that's fine.

There’s lots of really useful advice and insight on this thread. My daughter is autistic and absolutely hates naughty and loud children. If your sons behaviour was perceived in this way she would avoid him whenever possible.

Have you considered that if your part of a neurodiverse family yourself, your sister and her children might be neurodivergent too hence the struggles around communication.

Id be focusing my energies on ensuring your child understands not everyone will like him, that’s completely normal and how to manage this e.g joining clubs to ensure there are friendships elsewhere

But to answer your title question, I wouldn't pull away from my sister as well. I'd keep the kids situation separate if I had as close a friendship with her as you say. The relationship can evolve and you don't have to keep sharing holidays but that needn't mean being less close. It would feel a bit immature to me if you started to let the kids dynamic change your own one.