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Original poster

My MILs partner smacked our 3 year old

284 replies

BubblingRage · 18/02/2023 12:46

Sorry for this being very long winded!
A bit of background first. MIL moved her new partner into her house after talking to each other for a month during the first lockdown. Everything was very quick and he seemingly arrived at her house with nothing. No furniture, towels, tv… literally just a handful of clothes. I always found him a bit “iffy” and refused to let my then 2 year old round to his nanny’s without me or my husband being there. (Once lockdown lifted obviously). Fast forward nearly 2 years and I’ve warmed to him, so I finally agree for my MIL to have our 3 and 1 year old overnight near Christmas so we could go out a celebrate my birthday. For a couple of weeks afterwards my 3 year old didn’t want “nanny” and (I shall refer to him as) “R” to come round our house. He also started not wanting to go round to nanny’s house either. This was very unusual as he usually dotes on his nan. Alarm bells starting ringing.
They came round to ours on Boxing Day as their surrogate Christmas Day. I noticed that R was often rolling his eyes and shaking his head at our DS. He wasn’t doing anything wrong, he was just an excited 3 year old at Christmas!
DS didn’t mention anything for a couple of weeks so I assumed he’d forgotten all about whatever was bugging him. Every so often he would drop into conversation or just randomly say that he doesn’t like “R”. I lightly questioned him about it but never really got a proper answer out of him. My DH asked MIL if anything had happened. She said R told DS off for throwing a dice. So we assumed that was what was wrong!
This morning DS randomly said again that he doesn’t like R. I sat him down and said that I will always help him. I always believe him and will never be angry or sad if he tells me what is bothering him and that I will always help him. But that I can’t help him if he doesn’t tell me what’s wrong. He then said that “R” smacked him round the head when he had a sleepover at nanny’s. Nanny had gone to get him a drink, DS was playing with a dice and R smacked him. He didn’t tell him off or shout, just smacked him.
I am beyond livid and although he’s only 3, I believe my son implicitly.
I don’t know what to do. We’re going to mention it to MIL and not let DS round to their house. But I feel like that’s not enough!
im just absolutely gutted for my son. And I’m so annoyed that I didn’t listen to my own instinct.
What would you do in this situation?!

OP posts:
TicketBoo23 · 18/02/2023 20:11

I think the fact that he's feels comfortable rolling his eyes, shaking his head etc at a there yr old boy in front of his parents and his grandmother...is significant.

Very odd behaviour.

Regardless of what happened, your son hasn't wanted to go around there since.

His relative lack of relationship with his own grown up kids is also notable.

musicalgymball · 18/02/2023 20:15

@Nimbostratus100
"3 years olds dont react like this to a slap. They dont know its wrong, itr doesnt play on their mind, and they are more likely to become MORE affectionate to an abuser, rather than less

3 year old also dont have this kind of memory"

What claptrap.

This is ludicrous nonsense.

Three year olds know they don't like to be hit. Three month olds know it!!

Wow I'm in utter shock anyone would even suggest this kind of nonsense.

This is exactly the kind of thing that would play on a small child's mind for months on end.

BankOfDave · 18/02/2023 20:15

I don’t mean this to sound quite as it comes out but who gives a shit about whether he came with towels or not and the whole back story on him and your MIL. If the backstory was a naice set of GPs, does that make it ok?

He hit your child. NEVER acceptable.

DotAndCarryOne2 · 18/02/2023 20:15

Nimbostratus100 · 18/02/2023 20:04

maybe I am more highly trained in this area and have cared for more abused children than you?

Believe me, an account like this from a 3 year old, 2 months later, just doesnt hold water

The exact opposite is true of abused 3 year olds, they try very hard to get back into favour, they dont see their abusers behaviour as wrong in the slightest

If the child had come out and told their mum that very day, then maybe. If they were upset, and telling their mum why they were upset, then that is one thing. But a child this age doesnt have this sort of thing "play on their mind" and keep it secret knowing it was wrong, and then answer questions about it when asked. Honestly, if only we could just ask a 3 year old what happened to them before christmas that was wrong!!!! It just doesnt pan out like that.

Show quote history

Don’t buy this for a second, and even if there was a shred of truth in it, it’s not worth taking the chance that the child is not the exception rather than the rule. The OP knows very little about this man who turned up and was apparently accepted into MIL’s home as a live in partner after a few weeks of contact. Absolutely no reason to disbelieve the child, and safer to do so until it’s proven otherwise. The alternative is unthinkable.

ReneBumsWombats · 18/02/2023 20:17

Nimbostratus100 · 18/02/2023 20:04

maybe I am more highly trained in this area and have cared for more abused children than you?

Believe me, an account like this from a 3 year old, 2 months later, just doesnt hold water

The exact opposite is true of abused 3 year olds, they try very hard to get back into favour, they dont see their abusers behaviour as wrong in the slightest

If the child had come out and told their mum that very day, then maybe. If they were upset, and telling their mum why they were upset, then that is one thing. But a child this age doesnt have this sort of thing "play on their mind" and keep it secret knowing it was wrong, and then answer questions about it when asked. Honestly, if only we could just ask a 3 year old what happened to them before christmas that was wrong!!!! It just doesnt pan out like that.

Show quote history

maybe I am more highly trained in this area and have cared for more abused children than you?

The more you talk, the less likely I think that is. How about, instead of taking offence at a reasonable question relating to child abuse, and making veiled insults, you actually answer the question?

a child this age doesnt have this sort of thing "play on their mind" and keep it secret knowing it was wrong, and then answer questions about it when asked

So I ask again, trusting you will skip the offence and anger and insults and actually answer: how do you work that one out? Tell us all about your high levels of training, qualifications and expertise as you do. You wouldn't use a suspected case of child abuse to puff yourself up, would you?

VestaTilley · 18/02/2023 20:19

Never let him near your children again.

And never let your children sleep over at a house where a man is present who you barely know!

musicalgymball · 18/02/2023 20:20

@ReneBumsWombats

I agree if someone claims to be trained and says "you don't know my qualifications" then the obvious response is ok, tell me all the relevant information about your training and qualifications, not hide behind "I am highly trained so you can assume whatever level of training you assume I have and still think I'm wrong, you don't know for certain that I'm not just a little bit more trained than that and can use that uncertainty to claim I have privileged knowledge on the situation that I don't have to or couldn't explain, and therefore you have to assume I'm right".

Nonsense.

OP I think your DH should sit down and have a chat to MIL on her own to ask what happened, and then let her know what DS said and your decision on the matter.

DotAndCarryOne2 · 18/02/2023 20:21

Nimbostratus100 · 18/02/2023 18:40

what is that supposed to mean?

How many 3 year olds talk about "being smacked around the head"? Where has this language come from? That is a worry - is he hearing threats?

How many 3 year old are going to be harping on about a simple smack after 2 months? Honestly, if you think this is likely, you have never spent any time trying to get a three year old to divulge what happened 2 weeks ago.....

A man is in the room with his partner and her grandchild, she leaves, he gets up, hits the grandchild, and sits back down again???

If someone has hit or threatened this child, then I dont think this account, and these circumstances are the truth of the matter.

and based on the language the child is using, it sounds like he has heard threats, in some situation or other, habitually

Show quote history

’Smacked around the head’ was the OP’s description based on what her DS had told her. And he wasn’t ‘harping on’ about a smack after two months - he didn’t want to go to GM’s after being keen to do so before the alleged incident. His behaviour led to the questioning and GM confirmed something had happened -she described it as her DP shouting at him, but her DS said he had been smacked. There was also intolerant behaviour towards DS from GM’s DP in the presence of the OP. And if someone has hit or threatened him it doesn’t matter whether his account is the full truth, he has been hit and that’s all that matters. What a load of shit.

GoodChat · 18/02/2023 20:22

How many 3 year old are going to be harping on about a simple smack after 2 months?

Let me guess, you're one of those people who says it's ok to smack children because they won't remember it?

My 3 year old (4 in May) still tells me she doesn't want to go to the 'nasty doctors because I don't like the spray in my nose'. She means the flu vaccine she had when she'd not long turned 2.

gloriawasright · 18/02/2023 20:59

Surely that means your own children.even in England you can't go around hitting other people's kids.

ReneBumsWombats · 18/02/2023 21:00

GoodChat · 18/02/2023 20:22

How many 3 year old are going to be harping on about a simple smack after 2 months?

Let me guess, you're one of those people who says it's ok to smack children because they won't remember it?

My 3 year old (4 in May) still tells me she doesn't want to go to the 'nasty doctors because I don't like the spray in my nose'. She means the flu vaccine she had when she'd not long turned 2.

I remember being hit by my parents at the age of three or thereabouts. It was traumatic, why would I not remember?

SoShallINever · 18/02/2023 21:17

Have you considered what will happen if your DS tells someone at nursery about what happened. If they follow procedures properly a report to social services will be made and they will want to know how you have safeguarded him. It's not always enough to say you won't let your child in his presence again. You may be asked why didn't seek medical attention or report abuse.

GoodChat · 18/02/2023 21:28

SoShallINever · 18/02/2023 21:17

Have you considered what will happen if your DS tells someone at nursery about what happened. If they follow procedures properly a report to social services will be made and they will want to know how you have safeguarded him. It's not always enough to say you won't let your child in his presence again. You may be asked why didn't seek medical attention or report abuse.

You won't get asked why you didn't seek medical advice on a smack that happened 3 months ago that you weren't aware had happened.

Caramelsmadfuzzytail · 18/02/2023 21:44

I'm 50 and still ŕemember being smacked by my mother when I was little.

ChazD27 · 18/02/2023 21:46

I absolutely do not believe your son is ‘lying’ or ‘exaggerating’ about this situation for the following reasons:

  1. the person in question is a stranger not his mummy who he feels comfortable enough to exaggerate in the moment with (kids ay 🙄)

  2. it happened such a long time ago and he is STILL genuinely so upset/afraid/very unsettled by the situation and the person in question

  3. if he was exaggerating or lying about what happened I highly doubt at 3 he would be able to carry on this ‘act’ of being scared and saying ‘I don’t like R’ and ‘I don’t want to go to Nanny’s because of R’ he’d have given up long ago!

  4. if he was previously close to Nanny he wouldn’t give up his time with her just to spite a horrible man who ‘shouted at him’

  5. toddlers are cheeky not manipulative, let’s say he’s still annoyed that this man told him off he would probably be very vocal about not liking him rather than behave differently and refuse to see him and Nanny

  6. what did he exaggerate from? He said ‘R smacked me round the head’ but if he’s exaggerating what exactly did R do? It must have been something physical for him to say that (you know this because of the example you give in your OP of holding his arm) so even if R put his hand on the side of your sons head and pushed it or nudged it he’s still so vile and wrong!

I don’t know much about the law but it’s well worth asking and trying to find out more about this man…he could be a danger…or he could just be an utter twat! Either way he doesn’t deserve your family and I would stay away (I do wonder if MIL is ok or at risk)

Please please be there for your little boy and continue to make sure he knows he can be honest with you.

whatswrongwithdh · 18/02/2023 22:47

MySugarBabyLove · 18/02/2023 19:05

I think the fact that people here don’t seem to know the difference between Clare’s law and Sarah’s law means that nobody can possibly tell the OP what she can or can’t find out.

Claire’s law is for adults to be able to do a background check on a partner to see whether they have previous convictions against a partner. Nothing to do with child abuse and only a partner can request one.

Sarahs law is to check whether someone has a history of child abuse, someone can request one if their child is in that person’s presence, but the information from it very much varies from area to area.

I do also agree with @Nimbostratus100 · that the three year old’s wording sounds indicative of something else.

There’s no way a three year old is going to be able to tell someone word for word exactly what happened several months ago and be accurate about it. That doesn’t necessarily mean that he’s lying, he’s at the very least heard the wording from somewhere, but “hit around the head” isn’t three year old language.

OP does he go to nursery? Could he have heard this wording from another child who has heard it from a parent or older sibling?

How did the conversation emerge when he told you all this? Did you lead him in any way?

I’m not saying that this R is innocent, nobody knows. But talk of offering ultimatums and threatening the MIL that if she doesn’t break up with him she’ll never see the child again is over dramatic. It’s possible to minimise the child’s interaction with this man without having to go in all guns blazing based on an account of a three year old three months down the line using language which is not a child’s language.

I would be more concerned that this has happened somewhere else tbh or that he’s overheard someone telling someone that it’s happened to them.

Not actually true @MySugarBabyLove

ANYONE can make a Claire's Law request if they are concerned about a relationship. Only the partner who is at risk will receive any potential disclose.

Its very common for a family member or professional to use Claires Law to the benefit of a new partner they are concerned for.

MojoDaysxx · 19/02/2023 09:08

A traumatised young child would remember. I'd consider reporting the incident.

DotAndCarryOne2 · 19/02/2023 13:11

whatswrongwithdh · 18/02/2023 22:47

Not actually true @MySugarBabyLove

ANYONE can make a Claire's Law request if they are concerned about a relationship. Only the partner who is at risk will receive any potential disclose.

Its very common for a family member or professional to use Claires Law to the benefit of a new partner they are concerned for.

Show quote history

And in addition, the police will report any cause for concern if the OP contacts them in relation to the assault.

Mandyjack · 19/02/2023 17:25

Tell MIL immediately. If you dont want to do this in person then message her and tell her and state that you wont be visiting with your children if and when he's there and he's not welcome to your house.
I'd suggest you do a check on him via the police too under Sarah's Law to see if there are any issues.
I work in child protection and believe me child abuse is more common than people think

Mandyjack · 19/02/2023 17:31

BubblingRage · 18/02/2023 18:51

So a bit more background on my MIL. She had an affair and left my husbands dad for another man who had a terminal illness (they were childhood sweethearts) she married him shortly before he died. My DH had a bit of trouble wrapping his head round all of it (understandably) and she truly believed I was manipulating him against her… I wasn’t.
We then built a better relationship between her and myself when I was pregnant with DS1. DH has said that she never laid a hand on him when he was younger and that smacking was definitely not a thing in their household.
In lockdown 1, when they introduced bubbles for single households, we asked her if she wanted to form one. She turned us down as she was planning on moving in with R.
He has 2 grown children from a previous relationship who he sees a few times a year. No mention of their mum.
The only thing I can find online about him is his linked in page and a CV which has a 20 month gap in it.
She recently bought a house on her own and he pays her rent as he couldn’t go in on the mortgage due to having some debt, which he has told my husband he’s now paid off. Another red flag. Where has he got the money to pay it off?
He works for the local council so I’m assuming they’d crb check him?

DS has over exaggerated things in the past but I definitely wouldn’t say he’s a liar! He’s got the memory of an elephant so is very reliable in that respect.

I think we’re going to sit MIL down in person and ask her about it and tell her that DS will not be spending time at her house if he is there.
I don’t want to give her an ultimatum as what she does with her own personal life is her business. She can see DS but it has to be at our house and supervised.
Im also going to apply for background through Sarah’s law.

A DBS check for the council will look for convictions. That doesn't mean he's never been reported for anything. After all Ian Huntley ended up working for a school even though there had been previous accusations. My gt nephews infants school headmaster was sacked a couple of years ago when it was discovered he was downloading and distributing child porn. He was even the safeguarding lead!

wingingit1987 · 19/02/2023 17:31

I’d contact the police. Even if it has been a while since the incident- it’s worth contacting them and seeking advice. I’m absolutely livid for you. Never ever let him near your children again. If MIL chooses to stay with him then cut all ties with her too. I’m sorry this happened to your wee one.

AnnieSnap · 19/02/2023 17:37

It’s true that a 3-year-old doesn’t always give an accurate picture, but this child has been consistently trying to avoid this man, so something more that a little telling off has happened. YANBU. What is your husband saying about it?

Happykittyy · 19/02/2023 17:37

Totally agree.

Happykittyy · 19/02/2023 17:40

Categorically do not have him go there again. Background check. Sounds dodgy on many levels.

AnnieKenney · 19/02/2023 17:44

Claire’s law is for adults to be able to do a background check on a partner to see whether they have previous convictions against a partner. Nothing to do with child abuse and only a partner can request one.

That's only partially right - it is about domestic abuse history but snce the Domestic Abuse Act 2021 children are now classed as victims in their own right so if a checkwas done and it revealed a history of violence against a child, this would be eligible for disclosure. Also, anyone can make a request under Claire's Law (Domestic Violence Disclosure Scheme) and the police will consider whether to grant the request. Partners are more likely to have a request agreed than other people but other people can make an application.